New ASA probationary TOLD card

[damnflyboy]

New ASA TOLD card

What do you guys think about the new TOLD card in ASA aircraft? I think it's crazier than a crippled midget running with a bucket of hot-sauce...

A few things that I found-

1) It's difficult to read as it's in mice-type.
2) The information is jumbled, squished, and difficult to find things at a glance.
3) The grayed areas are difficult to read at night.
4) The "notes" blanks at the top and bottom invite non-standard practice and scribble.
5) Information overload and over-kill.
6) The dual-side feature is just waiting to cause an accident or confusion between flights. Paper is cheap. Lawsuits are not. Make the blanks bigger/easier to read and use both sides. If you want to save money, make the rampers show up to the gate.
7) No space (except for "notes" section) for flight number or aircraft verification in the brief.
8) The V-Speed blanks can all be briefed off the FMS, which would make it easier in case of runway/data change.
9) Not enough room for all of the NOTAM-rich airports and plentiful MEL's/CDL's.

I don't know about everyone else, but I don't want to write out War and Peace...especially during a quick turn at an outstation. Just the essentials. I fell like I'm filling out a freaking electronics rebate form that will never yield a result---Just more frustration than a broke FO in a strip-club.

I think the intentions were good and they were trying to cover all of the bases...but it was too much of a good thing. Ice cream a-la-mode in pill form, anyone?

Am I alone here?

(*in Mike Myers' Linda Richman voice from Coffee Talk*): Discuss!

 

[McNugent]

Amen

I filled one out just to see how long it would take. The thing is a good idea overall, but needs a lot of tweaking. I found it to be a waste of time.

Like you said, most of the stuff you already get off the acars, so why be redundant and write it down and check boxes??

They could take 2/3 of the crap off that thing, and that would leave a lot more space for bigger font and boxes for the important stuff.

OR how about just leaving blank pads of paper and letting us write down what we need to.

By the way, since the FO's will be the ones filling these things out, I hope the company asks the right demographic for the input about how to improve the new briefing sheets.

 

[Plainsman]

Too much info. in a little space. Did anyone get in trouble with the old sheets? Put that on a normal sheet of paper and everyone will do fine. Besides who has the time to put out all this crap they keep sending us. I can't keep up with the flood of emails & chart up dates around this joint.

 

[damnflyboy]

Yea...I just hope enough FO's and Captains have the foresight to care. We're going to be filling out a million of these dang things, so we might as well give them our input to make them work for line flying. Supposedly, we should send our suggestions to Zach Rogers- Mangager of Line Operations.

 

[HoserASA]

I sent in my two cents in which I stated the TOLD cards are a waste of money, and we're supposed to be cutting costs? My response went on to say that what we have now is sufficient, even a piece of paper is better than the TOLD cards. People at the G/O have way too much time on their hands. Let them know how you feel, maybe they'll eliminate them after the trial run.

Hoser
Roll Tide!

 

[SLUF4]

I haven't flown in a while so forgive me if I'm wrong. Reading the bulletin it says that the gray areas are only to be filled out if ACARS is inop or captain's discretion. So that seems to cut a lot of the work out. Just print out the ACARS and use that expensive paper. The bulletin also has tips to avoid using the wrong side. I agree, though if it isn't broke; why fix it?

 

[Metro752]

Sounds like the folks at ASA are trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[PooPooPants]

By the way, since the FO's will be the ones filling these things out, I hope the company asks the right demographic for the input about how to improve the new briefing sheets.

You mean the FO's are actually going to have something to do now? Who's going to program the Ipod and create the playlist for each leg?

 

[crj567]

I found that the new cards, when combined with enough hair gel, will form an awesome spitball..... Just a suggestion, but they are best deployed at those times when someone like Riddleagle18 starts trying to listen to Dave Matthews on his I-pod in flight.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

I found that the new cards, when combined with enough hair gel, will form an awesome spitball..... Just a suggestion, but they are best deployed at those times when someone like Riddleagle18 starts trying to listen to Dave Matthews on his I-pod in flight.

I hate Dave Matthews Band...

 

[spudskier]

Send in your comments,they're listening!!! THis is just the beta version if you will.

P.S. this WILL save money as these cost less than the Load Report White/Yellow forms.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I hate Dave Matthews Band...

You almost became the first person on my ignore list with that comment.

R.I.P. LeRoi Moore.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Used them for one leg, then told the FO to just write any pertinent info on the ACARS ATIS paper.

Way too much info on those cards, and too small for my aching eyes to read.

Who came up with these anyway? Interns? (Seriously)

 

[cfi_greg]

Sounds like the skywest TOLD cards. Some of the stuff is a good idea, but I rarely fill it all out. But you can draw pictures on the back.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Omg Stiffler.. they are wasting money by using the ACARS paper, don't let them find out.
Use the paper you get out of the hotel rooms.. It's free and lol the company will love you for saving them money....
Ya ya, that's the ticket!!!

 

[Max Q]

The ACARS spits out about a mile of blank paper prior to the ATIS. I find it to be a perfect spot for pertinent information. If anything, it saves paper, unless you just don't want to print ATIS at all...

-Brett

 

[blesko]

you guys really care that much about this? Geesus...are we in ATL? Good, there's your brief. Any problems, we come back and call in fatigued.

 

[sweptback]

ASA briefs too much. This TOLD card business is just an admission of that fact.

For you old timers, remember the old load manifest forms? The back side was mostly blank except for a spot for ATIS, clearance, and N1 settings. I want those days back.

 

[701EV]

Just put a blank peice of paper in their with some lines on it works for me. Let the newbies use until the get comfortable.

 

[blesko]

hotel notepads work fine. If you filled out the back of the load manifest a few times, you can pretty much copy the format onto a piece of paper, unless you forgot to take the ipod out of your ears while copying the clearance

 

[mtsupilot376]

TOLD cards

For starters, the takeoff briefing section is incredibly over detailed. Runway elevation? Are you kidding me?
The single engine departure procedure section needs a little tweaking. For example, the majority of people I have flown with prefer briefing the direction of turn, the heading, and then the flap retraction altitude. If you look at the TOLD cards you can see that they are set up counter intuitively. The FRA is a few boxes before the line for SE Procedures.
I will be submitting these changes just as soon as I can sit down at a desk and study the new card in detail. I am just too tired flying this four day to deal with it right now.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

For starters, the takeoff briefing section is incredibly over detailed. Runway elevation? Are you kidding me?
The single engine departure procedure section needs a little tweaking. For example, the majority of people I have flown with prefer briefing the direction of turn, the heading, and then the flap retraction altitude. If you look at the TOLD cards you can see that they are set up counter intuitively. The FRA is a few boxes before the line for SE Procedures.
I will be submitting these changes just as soon as I can sit down at a desk and study the new card in detail. I am just too tired flying this four day to deal with it right now.

I agree they need some work, but that is why they are out there, to get the feedback.

The grayed out parts are not required if you have ACARS.

The runway elevation is there so when you check the altimeters on the takeoff check to the line, you can verify your altimeters are within 75 feet for RVSM.

Writing stuff on a sheet of paper is not acceptable because every person ends up with a different way of doing a brief. Some people brief everything under the sun, some brief nothing, and it doesn't lend itself to being standardized.

We can debate the design of the briefing card, but the fact that we need to have one is pretty obvious. It is nice to know what to expect from your pilot/copilot.

 

[JumpersAway]

Obviously, whomever decided to design this thing up with the current format (ZR) has not heard of the phrase "less is more".

Personally, two sheets per leg, or more, in order to exhaust the supply we have that much quicker. These things suck.

As for the departure brief- runway, trim, flaps, and initial altitude- that's all I want to hear on the taxi out..................

 

[socrates1]

Nothing says "Thou shalt always use the TOLD cards." Leave them in the barf bag and your problem is solved. I haven't used one yet.

 

[JettBoii]

The intern in the chief pilots office designed them. Nuff said.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

The intern in the chief pilots office designed them. Nuff said.

That is absolutely not true. They were started by publications, and then sent to the training department for final input.

 

[sweptback]

That is absolutely not true. They were started by publications, and then sent to the training department for final input.

I heard the original design was a little less "verbose", then the training department got a hold of it and balled it all up.

 

[blesko]

I heard the original design was a little less "verbose", then the training department got a hold of it and balled it all up.

are we really surprised? I mean getting vectors for the approach, 180 kts and flaps 8 IS real world flying. Enough said.