New Alaska Negotiations Thread

[Going2Baja]

I think that's why they're not fighting for the bottom guys right now. They're too busy playing nice for the mediator to put up a fuss about the furloughees.

Yep....And why would I give a rip about a new contract if they won't defend the one we have now. Our MEC sucks balls - BIG SOUR BALLS!

Oh yeah - To the tool that said they wouldn't move a car without the home.....They will.....Monkey! Grieve it or take it....Bookmark the grievance page and use it often.

Baja.

 

[Mookie]

Yep....And why would I give a rip about a new contract if they won't defend the one we have now. Our MEC sucks balls - BIG SOUR BALLS!

Baja.

Dude, I know you are a bitter socal guy and don't represent the vast majority of that group, but unless you have a real reason to make such statements, seriously, you are making yourself look like a bitter ass. B.S. (our MEC), while not perfect, is a hell of a guy, and if you think he sucks balls, then maybe it was your balls he's been sucking...seriously, is there anything that you don't complain about here?? why on earth did you come to alaska??

mookie

 

[Fubijaakr]

I gotta agree with you, Mookie.

Seriously, we have the SINGLE MOST EXPERIENCED guy at the helm when it comes to negotiating with the Company. He's the guy, if you remember, who won the -900 arbitration.

Personally, I think the length of the furloughs will depend on when we sign the new contract. Just like Air Tran, these furloughed pilots are hostages, pure and simple.

THE COMPANY CAN'T STAFF OUR REDUCED FLYING NOW!

And we have guys on furlough?

What is it about those two facts that people can't put together?

BTW, did any of you guys screaming "Anything less than pre-Kasher is concessionary" happen to notice that the economy is in the toilet? Or the fact that there are 1875 qualified airline pilots on furlough from AA alone? Or that Virgin American has no lack of candidates to fly their 'buses for 2/3rds of our Captain rate?

Personally, I think its time to lock in a contract until the economy turns around and get our furloughed guys back on the property. How much you want to bet that they're all back within a month of signing the contract? Summer's coming.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I think that's why they're not fighting for the bottom guys right now. They're too busy playing nice for the mediator to put up a fuss about the furloughees.

I disagree, Crunk. Exactly what has the Company done with regard to the furloughees that is outside the scope of Sec. 23? Cite me a couple examples, please.

 

[Ocity]

I gotta agree with you, Mookie.



Personally, I think its time to lock in a contract until the economy turns around and get our furloughed guys back on the property. How much you want to bet that they're all back within a month of signing the contract? Summer's coming.

Do you realize that you are working under an agreement that was originally signed in 1997? There is no "short term" agreement to be had here. The economy will improve. It always does. If you sign a crappy deal now just because you're scared, you are going to cough up 1/3rd of your working life to a bad deal. I suggest you take a much longer term view of Alaska Airlines and turn off cnbc for awhile.

Sure. Being on furlough sucks. I did it for 5 years. HOWEVER, they are a part of airline life. It's a risk that we all assume be doing this work. You said it yourself...summer is coming. It would be foolish to sign a BS contract for 10 years just to get 45 guys back to work 6 months early. Make sure they have something worth coming back to!

 

[NWaviator]

For what it's worth: 20 captains are retiring this month.

 

[Green]

As far as I can tell, we're asking for captains to get a raise slightly ahead of inflation. For F/Os we're asking for 9% initially, plus cola.

On the one hand, what we're asking for is embarrassing. On the other hand, we have two companies up our a$$ on the west coast that pay their captains less than half our pre-Kasher rate.

wow that sucks....9%??????? People are satisfied with that? Who doesn't have competition to worry about? SWA just signed off on 220/hr or so and there fuel hedges are a thing of the past. Alaska offers a superior product and you are one of the stronger carriers financially.....

Good luck

 

[AKMD80GUY]

If what was posted earlier about 9% for F/O's is even close to accurate, that is a no vote. We all have our golden number that will trigger a yes but it will have to be significantly higher. Lets not lose sight of the fact that AS was profitable in this economy.

 

[Mookie]

9% plus COLA back to 1997??? that's about 45% by my math...

and I totally agree with you OCity....

mookie

 

[turbodriver]

Don't sign a crappy contact just to get me back early. That's my vote. I want something good to come back to.

Give 'em hell!!

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

I doubt our NC would buy off on the "9%" increase. Yes, we are in a recession and yes, there are thousands of unemployed pilots out there, but if we cave in now, we'll never be able to crawl out of this hole. No more, "let's sign a contract now and fight another day" bull$hit. The fight is now! When will some of you ever grow some balls? If we are all waiting for that "right time", it's never gonna happen. Remember "Kashertration" took place when Alaska was making record profits. Don't let management tactics get to you.

 

[wscrj]

Just to clarify things a bit, the 9% was for 2007. Then year over year of 7, 5, 4 &4% for 2008-2011 respectively. Not saying these will be the final numbers, they just happen to be the ones from the December Neg. Notepad.

 

[kg911]

Yep....And why would I give a rip about a new contract if they won't defend the one we have now. Our MEC sucks balls - BIG SOUR BALLS!

Oh yeah - To the tool that said they wouldn't move a car without the home.....They will.....Monkey! Grieve it or take it....Bookmark the grievance page and use it often.

Baja.

Dude,

How long have you been here? What maybe a year and a half? two at the most. Seems like all you do is pi$$ and moan about how bad you have it here.

Not saying things are perfect, far from it. Not saying you don't have a legitimate reasons to be upset either. You just really need to get your facts straight before you make comments uncalled for.

Give it a rest.

 

[AKMD80GUY]

Just to clarify things a bit, the 9% was for 2007. Then year over year of 7, 5, 4 &4% for 2008-2011 respectively. Not saying these will be the final numbers, they just happen to be the ones from the December Neg. Notepad.

Lets say those numbers are accurate. That's 16% up front going back to a May 05 DOS. Then lets say two more years of 4% each for a total 5 year contract worth 24%. That is still a pay cut when you take into account the % in cash plus COLA by up to about 20%. This plus the increase in upgrade time and the TA at SWA has adjusted what I find acceptable upward.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I disagree, Crunk. Exactly what has the Company done with regard to the furloughees that is outside the scope of Sec. 23? Cite me a couple examples, please.

25.E.5, 23.A.1 and 23.A.3 for starters, but I'm more concerned with creating a new position called "extra pilots" or whatever they're calling it.

Can they call any Joe off the street an extra pilot?

 

[QCappy]

Lets say those numbers are accurate. That's 16% up front going back to a May 05 DOS.

The farthest it can go back is to a May 07 DOS. The Kasher reaming was a two year deal from May 05.

 

[Going2Baja]

Easy now team....I have the utmost respect for our MEC Chair and I think the negotiating committee are doing an ok job. What I'm spewing about is some of the recent decisions (or lack there of) by our MEC (not one man.)

In recent weeks it seems that we are loosing track of the MEC main job - to protect it's dues paying members and at the SAME time to negotiate the best contract for the ENTIRE pilot group.

Recently we've seen furloughs while members are flying 85 hour lines & VSA.

We've seen the company flatly deny paid moves to displaces pilots unless pilots move their entire households.

And now (yesterday) we are seeing a complete disregard for our seniority system. While I am all for retaining as many pilots on the payroll as possible - I think it is a very slippery slope when the MEC allows pilots to stay in base out of seniority.

I too have been furloughed before for over 5 years and I know it's not an easy thing to process. But as turbodriver says - "Don't sign a crappy contact just to get me back early. That's my vote. I want something good to come back to."

Mookie - I came here because I thought this was a strong and upward moving company. Since I've been here my class has gone nowhere but backwards - and there's no end in sight. Yes I'm glad I'm not wearing a Johny Cash outfit flying for 2/3'rds wage (I never would have.) But I think we deserve a lot more than 9%. I'm thinking 40% + retro. This may be a vast improvement from skyw's non-union atmosphere but still nowhere close to the hardball ALPA of NWA. Put down your cup of koolaid Mook and dig those heels in & see what's happening.

That's it for now friends, colleagues, & brothers....Time to get some rest before the big drive up the coast. Can't wait for the $0.20 a mile per the AAA for reimbursement. (Insert sarcasm here.)

Baja Out.

 

[Mookie]

Baja,

with all undue respect, if you think I'm drinking koolaid, then you have no goddamn idea what you are talking about, or have any idea about me....but judging by your statement above, I guess that kind of confirms it.

Mookie

 

[Fubijaakr]

25.E.5, 23.A.1 and 23.A.3 for starters

Sorry, Crunk, but tossing out a bunch of numbers like you know what you're talking about without expanding on them is pretty useless.

For example, 25.E.5 does not exist.

23.A.1:

1. Reduce Bid Blocks: In the event the Company furloughs pilots,
the Company and the MEC shall meet and establish a program for reducing the number of hours in the bid blocks to prevent the furlough.

I don't know what bid package you're looking at, but the line values in SEA have dropped to 75-77 hours. Plus the part time line program was agreed to and implemented. That pretty much satisfies 23.A.1.

23.A.3:

Details of: When a furlough is scheduled the Company shall post a notice at all pilot bases advising of the effective date of the furlough, anticipated length of the furlough, and the number of pilots to be furloughed. As soon as possible after the posting of the notice, the Company shall notify each of the affected pilots, by certified mail, return receipt requested, at his home address, of the actual date of his furlough.

For the first group of furloughs, Pilot Bid 2009-02 would seem to cover all the bases required by Sec. 23.A.3.

So, what's the big deal?
​

 

[msmb]

Easy now team....I have the utmost respect for our MEC Chair and I think the negotiating committee are doing an ok job. What I'm spewing about is some of the recent decisions (or lack there of) by our MEC (not one man.)

In recent weeks it seems that we are loosing track of the MEC main job - to protect it's dues paying members and at the SAME time to negotiate the best contract for the ENTIRE pilot group.

Recently we've seen furloughs while members are flying 85 hour lines & VSA.

We've seen the company flatly deny paid moves to displaces pilots unless pilots move their entire households.

And now (yesterday) we are seeing a complete disregard for our seniority system. While I am all for retaining as many pilots on the payroll as possible - I think it is a very slippery slope when the MEC allows pilots to stay in base out of seniority.

I too have been furloughed before for over 5 years and I know it's not an easy thing to process. But as turbodriver says - "Don't sign a crappy contact just to get me back early. That's my vote. I want something good to come back to."

Mookie - I came here because I thought this was a strong and upward moving company. Since I've been here my class has gone nowhere but backwards - and there's no end in sight. Yes I'm glad I'm not wearing a Johny Cash outfit flying for 2/3'rds wage (I never would have.) But I think we deserve a lot more than 9%. I'm thinking 40% + retro. This may be a vast improvement from skyw's non-union atmosphere but still nowhere close to the hardball ALPA of NWA. Put down your cup of koolaid Mook and dig those heels in & see what's happening.

That's it for now friends, colleagues, & brothers....Time to get some rest before the big drive up the coast. Can't wait for the $0.20 a mile per the AAA for reimbursement. (Insert sarcasm here.)

Baja Out.

Obviously emotions are running extremely high these days. It's not the time to be bashing because that won't get anyone anywhere. All that does is drive us apart which is exactly what Bill A. wants. However, I do agree 100% with baja's statement about pilots flying 85 hours and picking up VSA. Picking up VSA is COMPLETELY selfish when there are pilots on the street. There isn't any excuse for doing that. For the pilots building lines up to 85 hours during 1st/2nd step, that doesn't help either. That takes away trips to build open fly lines which puts more people on reserve which, in turn, will keep more people on the street. There may be a few exceptions as far as people needing the 85 hours to support a family due to whatever circumstances. But for the most part, it's just greed when we have pilots on the street unable to pay bills. My opinion, which we all have, is that NO ONE should be picking up VSA during negotiations, period. Also, no one should be building up their lines from open time when we have pilots on the street-with a few exceptions. That's just my 2 cents. By the way, i'm the wife of a pilot on the outside looking in on what is a crappy situation for everyone.