New AirTran TA Thread

[Eagle757shark]

For a CAL outsider any chance you could post some of the pay rates? If it isn't good enough vote NO! It's time we take back our industry.

I am the Strike Prep Chairman at CAL and we are preparing for early openers in a few months (maybe if the company agrees to our protocol agreement). We are looking for a FedEx type of contract.

FYI We got sold a bunch of BS from our former negotiating committee and MEC leadership for our POS concessionary contract 02. Now we all regret it we have to live under this POS and some of our former N/C work for management or are trying too and no body talks to the former MEC leadership. Hang tough and don't let anyone talk you into anything it ain't good enough VOTE NO!

My two cents.

First of all, thanks for asking. This is not just about pay rates (although they could be better). This is about horrible work rules and giving back work rules from the previous contract. I think sometime we get too focused just on a hourly pay rate. This contract is about not giving up scope (current scope of 70 seats or less) nothing more, protecting our reserves, and fair first year pay. What the hell is market conditions and who sets them? That is what our company wants to do for our new hires!(and they have to pay for lodging while in training) Totally unacceptable. Oh by the way, this contract is totally concessionary: They want us to fly to Mexico, Canada, and the Carribean at domestic pay rates. Last time I checked, those were international destinations and I need a passport to go in and out of these countries. Reserves doing Ready Reserves after they complete a trip, are you kidding me, we gave them this. Sick-call may have to provide a note. (folks read section 10 para. C part 7) In questionable cases? What is questionable and what establishes that? I can pick this thing apart, this TA is not in the best interest of this pilot group. The language is too vague. Why hasn't the union set a place and time for road shows two weeks after a TA has been out? It is a waste of time to go in the office and listen to those guys try to sell this thing. Lets get in a neutral location where we can look you straight in the eye and ask, how is this helping this pilot group. Give us a hotel conference room or the NPA office and set a time. These NC members are scared and very defensive, because guys here are not impressed with this garbage! I wont even talk about, the loss of starting pay when the door closes, loosing platinum ppo health insurance, and no stock options or profit sharing. What have these guys been doing for over two years?

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Two things:

1. Small jets are coming if we have a new pay scale for them. EMB 190/195 WILL replace 717, make no mistake about it...why do you think they stopped repainting 717s to new paintjob?

2. Will they use every opportunity to sit us during a trip?...YES

I guarantee that if you look closely, every day during certain times (historical delay times) we have a crew sitting at every station for 3-4 hours (from BWI to MLI to EWR to FLL to ICT and so on). Why? To allow schedule recovery if things go bad with delays. Company been using all of us on sort of "reserve" and new 4.5 average is there to make it cheaper for them.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

...why do you think they stopped repainting 717s to new paintjob?

When did they stop doing that?

 

[Wesb737fo]

I posted the new 717/737 pay rates on another thread, take a look through the last 4 or 5 pages on the Majors forum and you'll find it.

A couple details that may or may not have been in the other posts:

We're giving up our pay based on customer schedules and going to a 3 month average from the previous year of actual block. The MEC and NC have admitted this is approximately 6 minutes we lose per leg (although they keep dropping that number every time they talk about it because people are so angry).

We're also giving up door close as the beginning of pay until wheels move. The MEC and NC have admitted that is, on average, a 3 minute concession per leg as well. The flight attendants have a "me, too" clause in their contract and if we give this up, they give it up unwillingly and they're pretty angry about it.

Hey guys,

Just got back from a trip and went through my past schedule and saw that on 14 out of 38 legs, I blocked over schedule. Accounting for the new rules, I would lose :42 (on a/c movement..assuming 3 minutes/leg) and 1:18 (on the 4:30 ave. day) for a total of 2 hours of credit.

If this happens every month then, with the new pay rate I would see 11.1% instead of the 13.45% increase in hourly rates. Doesn't seem like much of a drop unless, if what you are saying is true, is that the credit will be determined on a 3 mo. ave. from the previous year and this will drop that 11.1% raise even further! Wow! Very subtle but important fact that is hard to see.

 

[newnan]

It is a waste of time to go in the office and listen to those guys try to sell this thing. Lets get in a neutral location where we can look you straight in the eye and ask, how is this helping this pilot group. Give us a hotel conference room or the NPA office and set a time.


Eagle,

I think that was Lear's point. We need to be asking these questions any time we see them, no matter who is around. That will have the most effect on the people that are standing around, listening, and are now given a new view point that raises questions and they'll be asking questions themselves.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

All I know with BH spouting off, made a lot guys minds up the other day. Its very productive to let these guys talk, because it lets you know how bad it really is.

 

[FIREMAN]

Lear --"We're also giving up door close as the beginning of pay until wheels move. The MEC and NC have admitted that is, on average, a 3 minute concession per leg as well. The flight attendants have a "me, too" clause in their contract and if we give this up, they give it up unwillingly and they're pretty angry about it."

I think the door closed thing only comes into play if you over block. Do not get me wrong there are a lot of other items to vote NO on. In think you would be more creditable if you do not use three minutes for evey leg.

I also belive the 717 will be gone within five years to be replaced with E190/195. The 717s that were painted were done so under warranty due to some problem with the paint booth at Long Beach.

 

[-9Capt]

I hate to say I told you so....

We got exactly what we deserve.
This pilot group is a f*&kin' embarrassment to the profession. No idea how to behave during negotiations, not a clue. Unless the mindset changes around here, and we take this fight to the cockpit, nothing will change. Give me one reason why it should?

 

[PCL_128]

In think you would be more creditable if you do not use three minutes for evey leg.

That number comes directly from the NPA.

 

[FIREMAN]

Yes the NPA says 3 -max of 5 min. but only if you over block. If you underblock by more than the dwell time you get block. If you overblock by 5 but had 5 of dwell then you wood lose the time. What I was trying to get at is we need to be more upset about the "core block" the 4.5 cum day and RESV and scop.

However I think they (the company)are using scop to scare us into the 100 seat rate. If the 100 seat rate is any TA that is ratified the 717 WILL BE GONE.