New AirTran TA Thread

[Lear70]

The BK era is over... when our companies start making money you don't want a BK era TA...

BINGO!

Give that man a cigar.

Incidentally, pilots could get a 50% raise and it would only affect CASM by about 1/2 of 1% (that's .005). Straight from ALPA's EF&A...

I've been reading this thing and will post my notes tomorrow, but there are a LOT of small concessions all the way through the thing and a lot of other stuff they've been telling you about Scope restrictions that are incorrect. There's also NO letter to bind Holdings to the Merger language included with the contract nor does the contract reference such a letter as the Scope section does (not to mention the Scope letter reads pretty uselessly anyway) so, unless they hid it elsewhere,,,

Bad, bad juju. My stickers came in, I'll be in ops from 1430 to 1830 today showing some people the finer points of the T.A. the NPA doesn't want you to notice.

VOTE NO!

p.s. As far as "fixing it", not agreeing to the vast majority of what the company proposed back in 2005 would be a nice start. Have you read the two side-by-side? The company got almost everything they asked for.

 

[BFL370]

Eagle,
BINGO! You get it.

 

[Citrusflyer]

There is some good news coming from this TA, and the completely amateurish way the entire BOD has handled it from beginning to end….

In my many years here I have NEVER seen this pilot group so unified! The argument on line is not how hard it’s going to go down, but really what should happen after it does.

 

[Kharma Police]

There is some good news coming from this TA, and the completely amateurish way the entire BOD has handled it from beginning to end….

In my many years here I have NEVER seen this pilot group so unified! The argument on line is not how hard it’s going to go down, but really what should happen after it does.

The NPA will try and spin this by saying, "it's part of our grand strategy!!! We put out this piece of crap TA to get you guys unified for the real TA!!!"

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

However, after the holiday raping, age 65 crap, etc.

Don't forget the joke that SAP II has turned into.

even if we vote no, I have no confidence that they will actually be honest about the result. Who's to stop them from saying, " Oh yeah, it passed 65/35"? We'll get stuck with this turd even though we won't be able to find anyone who actually voted for it. How can anyone sit there with a straight face and say this isn't a concessionary contract? That's just an insult and a slap in the face, and not from the company, but from "one of us".

VOTE NO!

So, wait, you don't trust them? You think they might fix the vote? I think they did just that on the age 60 stuff) They seem to think Wilson polling is more accurate than an actual vote, so maybe they will use Wilson for ratification voting. They'll just survey 200 pilots, after all, it's accurate to within 3%, right? uke: I can't believe these guys will return to fly the line. How can they look anyone in the eye?

 

[Ace McCoy]

What is the mood of the group. I haven't really talked to a lot of people and all of us on FI agree it should be voted down. Will this thing be voted down?

Also, is there any chance we can get a national union like ALPA or the Teamsters in here? At the very least what can I do as an individual to get the BOD and NC recalled?

 

[CAL EWR B737]

For a CAL outsider any chance you could post some of the pay rates? If it isn't good enough vote NO! It's time we take back our industry.

I am the Strike Prep Chairman at CAL and we are preparing for early openers in a few months (maybe if the company agrees to our protocol agreement). We are looking for a FedEx type of contract.

FYI We got sold a bunch of BS from our former negotiating committee and MEC leadership for our POS concessionary contract 02. Now we all regret it we have to live under this POS and some of our former N/C work for management or are trying too and no body talks to the former MEC leadership. Hang tough and don't let anyone talk you into anything it ain't good enough VOTE NO!

My two cents.

 

[Diesel-9]

zzzzz

 

[Lear70]

For a CAL outsider any chance you could post some of the pay rates? If it isn't good enough vote NO! It's time we take back our industry.

I posted the new 717/737 pay rates on another thread, take a look through the last 4 or 5 pages on the Majors forum and you'll find it.

A couple details that may or may not have been in the other posts:

We're giving up our pay based on customer schedules and going to a 3 month average from the previous year of actual block. The MEC and NC have admitted this is approximately 6 minutes we lose per leg (although they keep dropping that number every time they talk about it because people are so angry).

We're also giving up door close as the beginning of pay until wheels move. The MEC and NC have admitted that is, on average, a 3 minute concession per leg as well. The flight attendants have a "me, too" clause in their contract and if we give this up, they give it up unwillingly and they're pretty angry about it.

So, that's 9 minutes per leg times my average of 45 legs per month (3 legs per day * 15 days per month) = 405 minutes, or 6 hours and 45 minutes (6.7) in actual hours of pay I lose every month from those two rules which, on an 85 hour credit line, is a 7.8% pay cut.

The actual hourly wage increases average 9% for most seniority ranges (some as high as 13%), so the total pay increase drops to only 2%-6%.

Not to mention, the F/O wages at Date Of Signing are STILL among the lowest in the major airline industry for the equipment we fly (in the bottom 3), the company got rid of the 13% override pay for the 737-800, and the SJ pay rates are the lowest in the Major Airline industry as well, as is Scope (no Majors have as loose of Scope restrictions as this proposes, nor do they have SJ rates this low).

We gave back an AWFUL lot to get a 2-6% pay raise... that might go away if they start getting rid of the 717's and replace them with EMB-195's.

Here's those rates:

SMALL JET PAY 78-100 Seats


F/O ………….. DOS +0 ……….. DOS +1 ………… DOS +2 ……………. DOS +3
Year 1 ……….. $ Market ……… $ Market ……….. $ Market ……………. $ Market
Year 2 ……….. $ 47.22 ……….. $ 47.93 …………. $ 48.65 ……………… $ 49.38
Year 3 ……….. $ 49.79 ……….. $ 50.54 …………. $ 51.29 ……………… $ 52.06
Year 4 ……….. $ 53.31 ……….. $ 54.11 …………. $ 54.92 ……………… $ 55.75
Year 5 ……….. $ 54.23 ……….. $ 55.05 …………. $ 55.87 ……………… $ 56.71
Year 6 ……….. $ 55.10 ……….. $ 55.92 …………. $ 56.76 ……………… $ 57.61
Year 7 ……….. $ 55.97 ……….. $ 56.81 …………. $ 57.67 ……………… $ 58.53
Year 8 ……….. $ 56.87 ……….. $ 57.72 …………. $ 58.59 ……………… $ 59.47
Year 9 ……….. $ 57.77 ……….. $ 58.63 …………. $ 59.51 ……………… $ 60.41
Year 10 ……… $ 58.69 ……….. $ 59.57 …………. $ 60.46 ……………… $ 61.37
Year 11 ……… $ 59.25 ……….. $ 60.14 …………. $ 61.04 ……………… $ 61.96

CA ………….. DOS +0 ……….. DOS +1 ………… DOS +2 …………….. DOS +3
Year 1 ………. $ 84.39 ………… $ 85.66 ………… $ 86.94 ……………… $ 88.24
Year 2 ………. $ 85.86 ………… $ 87.15 ………… $ 88.46 ……………… $ 89.78
Year 3 ………. $ 87.35 ………… $ 88.66 ………… $ 89.99 ……………… $ 91.34
Year 4 ………. $ 88.85 ………… $ 90.18 ………… $ 91.54 ……………… $ 92.91
Year 5 ………. $ 90.39 ………… $ 91.75 ………… $ 93.12 ……………… $ 94.52
Year 6 ………. $ 91.83 ………… $ 93.21 ………… $ 94.61 ……………… $ 96.02
Year 7 ………. $ 93.29 ………… $ 94.69 ………… $ 96.11 ……………… $ 97.55
Year 8 ………. $ 94.78 ………… $ 96.20 ………… $ 97.64 ……………… $ 99.11
Year 9 ………. $ 96.28 ………… $ 97.72 ………… $ 99.19 …………….. $ 100.68
Year 10 ……... $ 97.81 ………… $ 99.28 ……….. $ 100.77 …………….. $ 102.28
Year 11 …….. $ 98.75 ………..$ 100.23 ……….. $ 101.73 ……………. $ 103.26
Year 12 …….. $ 99.69 ………. $ 101.19 ……….. $ 102.70 ……………. $ 104.24

 

[Lear70]

What is the mood of the group. I haven't really talked to a lot of people and all of us on FI agree it should be voted down. Will this thing be voted down?

It's very, very quiet and guarded. No one wants to be the lone standout in the crew room when there are, at any given time, 2-5 union reps across the hall wandering over to get people to talk to and having "info sessions" in the Crew Room (I'm currently sitting at one of the tables in the crew room with a bunch of "VOTE NO" stickers spread out on the table in front of me - the union guys don't look amused).

Will it be voted down? I think so, but it's absolutely CRUCIAL we get accurate counter-information to the pilot group at the road shows. They're selling this thing through fear and, quite honestly, disinformation. I watched one of the NPA guys in here earlier today arguing with a Captain about one of the sections. The CA was showing a section to the union rep and the union rep was sitting there actually saying "That's not true." The guy was pointing it out in black and white, and the union rep just said, "If it says that, we'll fix it, don't worry."

EXCUSE ME??!! When, exactly, are you planning on fixing it? 3 1/2 years from now when we re-open Section 6?

If we get enough info out and people ask the hard questions and don't get satisfying answers, I think we can bury this thing easily. If we don't, it'll be WAY too close for comfort - there's enough people scattered around (mostly mid- to senior CA's) who are firmly enough in the "YES" category to worry me that they'll be heard and believed, even though the T.A. speaks for itself in no uncertain terms.

Also, is there any chance we can get a national union like ALPA or the Teamsters in here? At the very least what can I do as an individual to get the BOD and NC recalled?

Stay tuned. The only way that will happen is if this thing goes down in flames, and I don't think you'll see the whole BOD removed/replaced, that would take WAY too much time to spool up unless they're replaced with highly-experienced union guys and there's too much bad blood between the last group of NPA leaders and the people on property to do that.

I do believe the NC will go away, as will probably AP. When the TA results are out, you'll see a bigger push for recalls if it's voted down.