New AAI ALPA Strategy: Fire SWA Haters!

[Ty Webb]

You have a side business that grossed "a whole lot more than" $268,000 last year?

Could you define "whole lot more"? Just curious. Thanks.

So, you're telling me that a SWA FO averaged 268. every hour, until they "timed out"? Hard to believe.

Yes, our business is doing very well. My wife should get a lot of the credit.

 

[ASADFW7]

Some times I wonder what the heck is wrong with this industry then the last two pages remind me this is like wrestling entertainment.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

So what is the purpose of SWA buying Airtran. It seems to me they bought a company who has recently been posting losses, will be paying their employees a lot more, and keeping most of the current route structure. Doesn't losses plus paying higher salaries equal bigger losses? Is this all to get into Atlanta?

 

[FlyinGuy]

Yes!!!

 

[B727Driver]

So what is the purpose of SWA buying Airtran. It seems to me they bought a company who has recently been posting losses, will be paying their employees a lot more, and keeping most of the current route structure. Doesn't losses plus paying higher salaries equal bigger losses? Is this all to get into Atlanta?

It got SWA DCA, more LGA slots, ATL and AirTran’s future 737 delivery slots which will probably be converted to -800’s. The rest, only the powers that be in Dallas know.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

So what is the purpose of SWA buying Airtran. It seems to me they bought a company who has recently been posting losses, will be paying their employees a lot more, and keeping most of the current route structure. Doesn't losses plus paying higher salaries equal bigger losses? Is this all to get into Atlanta?

I'd like to think that someone saw potential that our inept leadership couldn't manifest with thier "the beatings will continue until morale improves" approach. We were marginally successful in spite of ourselves more often than not.

BTW, profitable until 08 and 09 and then in the black again in 10 as well as forcasted for full year profit in 11.

 

[Taco Rocket]

I have three points in response to your post, which is just thinly veiled envy, imo:

1. SWA pilots are paid approximately what we were paid in the mid 80's, adjusted for inflation. So it would seem that we aren't "overpaid relative" to our peers, our peers are underpaid relative to us. The leverage that you have in your next negotiations will be due to us, whereas we will gain nothing from your anemic contract. You're welcome.

This then-and-now argument interests me. I'm not talking about what you made in the 1980's, or what Pan Am paid in the 1960's, or any other analogy. I'm talking about now. Southwest pilots, now, today, are paid a lot more than pilots flying similar equipment at other airlines. Your argument assumes that every pilot group is engaged in pattern bargaining. Some competing unions are NOT asking for an improvement to the Southwest contract. These facts illustrate the point that Southwest pilots relatively overpaid.


2. At which point, when SWA has continued to be profitable come hell or high water, should we, in your esteemed opinion, consider giving some of our "overpay" back? Sorry your company's business plan can't support a decent contract - a problem that we don't currently (and probably never will) have.


I never stated you should return money to your employer.


3. Herb has always run his airline with the concept that although a viable culture might cost him a little money in the short term, it would save him / make him money in the long term. Every time. And I'm pretty sure Gary knows that also.

Thanks for your concern. However, we and our AirTran brothers and sisters will be just fine without it. Now go work on getting back what you gave away.

Why do you speak for "Herb" and "Gary?" Do you know these people personally? Are you directed to speak this way by a representative of the corporation? I had assumed you were labor.

 

[Taco Rocket]

So what is the purpose of SWA buying Airtran. It seems to me they bought a company who has recently been posting losses, will be paying their employees a lot more, and keeping most of the current route structure. Doesn't losses plus paying higher salaries equal bigger losses? Is this all to get into Atlanta?

If you listen to many on this board the purpose of purchasing AirTran was to give everyone a huge raise.

 

[Tripower455]

I have three points in response to your post, which is just thinly veiled envy, imo:

1. SWA pilots are paid approximately what we were paid in the mid 80's, adjusted for inflation. So it would seem that we aren't "overpaid relative" to our peers, our peers are underpaid relative to us. The leverage that you have in your next negotiations will be due to us, whereas we will gain nothing from your anemic contract. You're welcome.

This then-and-now argument interests me. I'm not talking about what you made in the 1980's, or what Pan Am paid in the 1960's, or any other analogy. I'm talking about now. Southwest pilots, now, today, are paid a lot more than pilots flying similar equipment at other airlines. Your argument assumes that every pilot group is engaged in pattern bargaining. Some competing unions are NOT asking for an improvement to the Southwest contract. These facts illustrate the point that Southwest pilots relatively overpaid.


2. At which point, when SWA has continued to be profitable come hell or high water, should we, in your esteemed opinion, consider giving some of our "overpay" back? Sorry your company's business plan can't support a decent contract - a problem that we don't currently (and probably never will) have.


I never stated you should return money to your employer.


3. Herb has always run his airline with the concept that although a viable culture might cost him a little money in the short term, it would save him / make him money in the long term. Every time. And I'm pretty sure Gary knows that also.

Thanks for your concern. However, we and our AirTran brothers and sisters will be just fine without it. Now go work on getting back what you gave away.

Why do you speak for "Herb" and "Gary?" Do you know these people personally? Are you directed to speak this way by a representative of the corporation? I had assumed you were labor.

I've met both Herb and Gary several times, and yes, that's exactly how they want be addressed. WN is a different company than you're used to. Enjoy it.

 

[SKC]

I've met both Herb and Gary several times, and yes, that's exactly how they want be addressed. WN is a different company than you're used to. Enjoy it.

I agree completely.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'm pretty sure Herb would look at you like "WTF dude" if you called him Mr. Kelleher.

No... I'm positive.

Gup

 

[flyingitalian]

These facts illustrate the point that Southwest pilots relatively overpaid.

There are many ways to measure pay. One way is on a pilot by pilot basis. This is a mistake. A corporation does not care what each pilot makes, but what it costs to move the fleet. Southwest moves its fleet with significantly fewer pilots per airplane, flying more block hours per year, over multi year periods. This allow us to get paid more per pilot, while still giving the company an advantage over our competitors. The addition of a second airplane and taking on more pilots per airplane that we are currently using will erode that advantage.

 

[Skyboy722]

So, you're telling me that a SWA FO averaged 268. every hour, until they "timed out"? Hard to believe.

It's not that hard, dude. Think: Deadhead. At premium pay.

You're gonna love it.

 

[GoodTimes]

Taco,

"Why do you speak for 'Herb' and 'Gary?' Do you know these people personally? Are you directed to speak this way by a representative of the corporation? I had assumed you were labor."


This quote speaks volumes. I spent time at a place where I was "labor". It sucked and didn't end well.

 

[Quiet Flight]

So, you're telling me that a SWA FO averaged 268. every hour, until they "timed out"? Hard to believe.

Yes, our business is doing very well. My wife should get a lot of the credit.

He blocked just under 800. We don't get paid like the rest. Much different structure. There were more than a few F/O's who made north of $200k in 2010.

Is "very well" still the same as "way more than"?