New 100 seat RJ's, I'm sure Skyw and others will fly for 50 seat rates!

[freeflyer14]

Sir,

Regional airline pilots are only screwing the industry because the "major" airline pilots are allowing them to. Not trying to stir the pot, but the regional airline is in exsistance only because you have allowed it. Gone are the days when you will strike over the issue. Gone are the days when you will give up a part of your wages to get the regional pilots on your seniority list. In other words you sir are as much a part of the ME generation that you accuse regional pilots to be part of.

The way to but the cat back in the bag will have to come from you, the mighty major airline pilot. Many ideas have been presented and no doubt talked about in cockpits and crewrooms accross the country. But as much as the 22 year old CFI wants that CRJ you just want to make sure you get your paycheck.

As much as it will hurt you in your contract you are going to have to fix this, much like your predeceesors fixed the B and C scales. As much as you won't like you are going to have to change your tactics.

What if all the aircraft that had "Delta" on the tail was actually flown by "Delta" pilots. Imagine how little managment would have during neg. if we actually did stand together as one.

So what's the problem, Why should a Mesaba pilot deserve a NWA senority number, after all you had to earn it. It's the you vs. them mentality, and as long as that's out their we ALL OF US will continue to ruin the industry together....

It's early in 2007, but this could very well end up being post of the year... I cannot wait to hear the responses to this.

 

[propjob27]

it could be argued the 'Me' generation is the old fart, poor retirement planning (3 legged stool folks, not 2) baby boomers who just whined their way into age 60 being studied and perhaps repealed. they will then suck social security dry so our 3 legged stool really will be a 1 legged stool (as pensions and social security will go bye bye).

Yup, I have less hostility towards the 24 year old college grad who wants to fly a 90 seat rj than I do against the 59 year old jack off who needs to fly until 65 (or whenever he drops dead, whichever comes first [hopefully drops dead]). Sell your f u cking house and/or boat.

 

[acarpe3448]

Yup, I have less hostility towards the 24 year old college grad who wants to fly a 90 seat rj than I do against the 59 year old jack off who needs to fly until 65 (or whenever he drops dead, whichever comes first [hopefully drops dead]). Sell your f u cking house and/or boat.

Here in lies the real problem. Where you say that ALPA is at fault for allowing the RJ revolution to begin, I say the regional pilots are at fault for accepting such low pay decade after decade! Now you say that as a major airline pilot I should sacrafice my pay and benefits so that all regional pilots instantly become major airline pilots with better pay and benefits for yourselves. This on top of my 49% reduction in pay I have already had! Sounds a little backwards and one sided does it not? Then again, I do not have the answers! I know for a fact that it will never be found in this forum! There is no mature exchange of information or ideas concerning this topic of flightinfo.com NOT A SINGLE ONE! Sad but true!

 

[AdlerDriver]

The very fact that you titled this thread "New 100 seat RJs..." tells me you are a fool who has bought into what management and the manufacturer wants you to believe. A 100 seat jet is a 100 seat jet. Is this any more an RJ than a E-190, a F-100, a DC-9-30?

True – a 100 seat jet is just that. However, F-100s and DC-9s (and 737s) USED to be the only 100 seat jets being flown throughout any of the major airline networks. They were also flown by pilots on that major airline’s seniority list for major airline wages.

The problem with a 100 seat RJ is obvious. This is not a poke at RJ pilots. It’s not their job to reign in the expansion of their company (not that they really could anyway). Scope clauses have been gutted and the camel’s nose is under the tent. Why would UAL, NWA, etc. fly a 100 seat mainline aircraft on a route they could farm out to a similar size RJ? Each new RJ gets closer and closer to looking like the mainline aircraft it’s replacing. Who would have thought there would be RJs with first-class cabins 10 years ago or they’d be flying on routes like east coast to Denver? Pretty soon, you’ll be able to stand up straight in all of them and they might even put in-flight entertainment on them. Once you get the traveling public to walk up to the gate and not roll their eyes when they see a “puddle jumper” or “one of those little aircraft”, the transformation is complete. No more 737s, DC-9s, or similar aircraft on the major airline fleet list. JQ Public is happy, some RJ pilots are happy and management at both airlines is VERY HAPPY. Everyone’s happy but the pilots who were hoping to upgrade to Captain in a reasonable time at their major and the pilots aspiring to be hired by that major. Expansion of RJ flying and increased aircraft capacity in that family of aircraft may make some short-sighted pilots flying them happy. If their career expectations are to stay in those aircraft, then I guess that’s good for them. If they have plans to get a job with a major, they’re kidding themselves if they think this trend is moving them in that direction.

Gone are the days when you will give up a part of your wages to get the regional pilots on your seniority list.

Good post. My question is: Was their every really a "day" when a major pilot was willing to sacrifice to get regional pilots on the seniority list? There was probably a long gone and missed "opportunity" to do it. But, back in the "day", I don't think anyone really considered it to be worth the fight. Now, they probably wouldn't mind a "do-over" in light of what's transpired.

 

[propjob27]

Here in lies the real problem. Where you say that ALPA is at fault for allowing the RJ revolution to begin, I say the regional pilots are at fault for accepting such low pay decade after decade! Now you say that as a major airline pilot I should sacrifice my pay and benefits so that all regional pilots instantly become major airline pilots with better pay and benefits for yourselves. This on top of my 49% reduction in pay I have already had! Sounds a little back wards and one sided does it not? Then again, I do not have the answers! I know for a fact that it will never be found in this forum! There is no mature exchange of information or ideas concerning this topic of flight info.com NOT A SINGLE ONE! Sad but true!

I don't blame ALPA, any pilot, or anyone for letting the RJ thing get going. That's an argument long since passed, and there isn't any way to go back in time and change that one...

However, I do think it's utterly insane for anyone to endorse letting guys fly past 60 (which is already TOO old for this job.) British Airways guys have a mandatory retirement age at 55. So do US ATC controllers. We should be fighting to lower our "get lost and go fishing" age to 55, while still allowing guys to walk out the door with same amount of money they currently do at 60. Hel l, FBI agents are forced to retire at 57. And they're just staring at their desk at that point, just so it looks like they're working. We should be pushing to work less, not more.

As soon as this horse sh i t is raised to 65, you'll have to fly till 65 to get the same retirement you used get at 60. It will take 2 or 3 contracts after the legislation is passed to fu c k us, but believe me, it will. Age 60 will be considered early retirement by 2012, and will carry all the penalties associated with it.

Can we please LOWER it to 55?

 

[TurboAWD]

I say the regional pilots are at fault for accepting such low pay decade after decade! Now you say that as a major airline pilot I should sacrafice my pay and benefits so that all regional pilots instantly become major airline pilots with better pay and benefits for yourselves.

Well, since any regional pilot group can be replaced by a RFP, it is a bit hard to get leverage.

As far as you guys giving more up... I surely am not asking for that. In fact some of your contracts are so bad at the legacies, I'm not totally sure I would take a job even if it was offered. What I WOULD have liked you to do is learn from the mistakes of the past and not DECREASE the scope (give up 76 seaters-what a great idea), and then set pay rates so low for the EMB190 type aircraft that you are actually undercutting what some regionals fly smaller (CRJ700) airplanes for.

I know the whole thing is a S*** sandwich, but there is plently of blame to go around, not just for the "regionals".

Turbo

 

[Draginass]

Seems a lot of people of buying into the BS of a 100 seat "RJ." This is a typical management tactics because a lot of pilots are just plain stupid.

It's not a "regional" jet if it flies from Dallas to DC. Next management will be calling the 787s "regional" jets.

 

[surplus1]

More shiny jets coming, I'm sure they'll go to the commuters and groups like Skywest will fly them for the same wages as the 50, 70, and 90 seaters (oh yeah, they'll get 1% more for the "big iron.") What's next, 135 passenger "regional jets" flying coast to coast for a "regional" airiline at commuter wages? You guys need to demand more $ for more seats. You're not only screwing yourselves, your screwing the industry.

Now that you've had your say, please go back an take another look at the pay rates that USAirways, AmericaWest, Delta and JetBlue have agreed to fly the EMB-190 and the EMB-170 (U) for. At that point you'll have a better perspective on who has done the undercutting.

I think you live in a glass house, friend. Don't throw rocks while you're in it.

 

[007]

Here in lies the real problem. Where you say that ALPA is at fault for allowing the RJ revolution to begin, I say the regional pilots are at fault for accepting such low pay decade after decade!

I am so sick of hearing that I need to quit my job because of some puffy chested major airline pilot might have to sell his vacation home.

Unbelievable.

 

[n25na]

Here in lies the real problem. Where you say that ALPA is at fault for allowing the RJ revolution to begin, I say the regional pilots are at fault for accepting such low pay decade after decade!

how much did you make flying the saab?