NetJets

[captain dad]

B19

If you don't agree with that, fine. But I don't have to agree with somebody that spits out union rhetoric with complete disregard for the other employees and the career choices they made.


I am sorry that you made a bad career choice. There are more unions out there. We happen to be a pilot union. Therefore, our union takes care of pilots.


I see a lot of anger and control issues in what you are saying. If it helps you to vent, go for it. Let it all out. Tell us about your mother and how you were abused, if it helps.


But I think it's a bit of a stretch trying to make a connection between our union and history's biggest mass murderer based on FOOTWARE! I find your thoughtless comments morally offensive and disgusting. Please stop. If not for my sake for the public that may be reading this.

I could be wrong but I think you have issues. You might want to get that looked at. Seriously!

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by B19 Flyer
No, it's a lot more complicated than that.

I've worked and managed in union and non-union environments. In union environments, there is an us against them, win-lose atmosphere that doesn't exist in non-union shops.

That is because in a non-Union shop you do what you are told or else. The rules change and you have no recourse. Non-Union shops stink of favoritism, and ass kissing.
Of course you prefer non-Union shops, you are management (tool).

Exactly. In a non-union shop, it is still very much "us vs. them". "They" just happen to have all the power. It is always a win/lose atmosphere and non organized employees always lose.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

I find it disheartening that so many are consumed by negativity, even while working for the best company in the industry IMO. I know there will always be naysayers, and typically they are the ones raising the most ruckus, but I was hoping not to encounter too much of this at my new job.

I sincerely hope that the majority of NJ pilots have the right attitude and mirror what I see coming from Captain Dad.

No, things are never going to be perfect or rosy red at any company, but they can be damned close to it.

Ultra Grump, I understand your skepticism to an extent, but it is bordering on cynicism. No, not everything save the EFB will make your life directly better (i despise Jepp revisions too, they are the spawn of the devil) but like CD and NJW are saying these other less tangible things will definitely secure your (our) futures and give us more pride in the company we work for. They will also open up more doors and opportunities for all which in my opinion is ALWAYS a good thing.

The union/non union debate is as old as time. Personally, from a pilot's perspective, I am tired of being in the non-union shop situation that you describe. You are right, it's do what you're told or else. You have to fight for everything all the time. It is too hard on a family, and too hard on the individual who has laid out so much personal sacrifice and financial risk. Only pilots that have spent the money and time and made the sacrifice (and of course their spouses and families) will understand what I am talking about.

For instance, I have gone to many job interviews where I have been told I will have to start my own LLC and will be given extra money for my "own" medical benefits because A: the liability is "too high" for the company and B: "if we pay for pilots medical insurance every employee's premiums at the company will go up and it would be cost prohibitive". I told that guy where he could stick his LLC and left. I've also worked for companies that hire you under a training contract and the guise of security down both ways of the street only to violate the contract in terms of pay, time off, upgrades, etc. and then expect you to work the remainder of the time owed, OR ELSE. It is the fault of the kind of management thinking at these types of organizations that has caused pilots to HAVE to unionize to survive and provide for their families. No other labor group (not to mention we are PROFESSIONALS, not LABORERS) gets treated as badly, period. People like B19 WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND because they have not been through it. He is not worth listening to or even engaging with, it's worthless.

Personally I am thanking my lucky stars for NetJets and what it is going to provide for my family. I am paying right now 403 bucks a months for health insurance of my own for my wife and 3 year old. On April 7th, I will immediately recover 5k for the year in those expenses. Not to mention the rest of the great things that will be provided. Finally, I am reaping some return on my investment.

You guys that have negative attitudes are suffering from the same story I have seen repeated over and over again. Boy (or girl) gets job, boy is happy, boy works job for a long time, boy forgets why he was happy, boy starts complaining, boy decides company sucks and can't see the good in anything anymore.

Let's all try to be positive. I can tell you that from the interview process it is obvious that there is a huge push in a new direction. They are looking for people with positive attitudes and bright outlooks that will contribute to the overall end goal which is being and maintaining their reputation of being the best of the best.

I sure hope that is the majority outlook at NJA and I don't spend half my time on the road listening to the discontented rants of my Captains! We'll see I guess.

 

[Bruce Dickenson]

Can this thread end now please?

Thanks

 

[CA1900]

I sure hope that is the majority outlook at NJA and I don't spend half my time on the road listening to the discontented rants of my Captains!

Every company has their 5% of negative a-holes; this place is no different! In my year and a half here, I've only run into a few; they're pretty few and far between.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

Every company has their 5% of negative a-holes; this place is no different! In my year and a half here, I've only run into a few; they're pretty few and far between.

Good.

 

[captain dad]

Welcome FlyAuburn. I think for the most part you will be very happy. Most don't complain here. Unfortunately, there are a few that just don't get it or can't let go of the past.

You'll love it.

 

[acaTerry]

Can this thread end now please?

Thanks

GEEZ!! You call yourself an Iron Maiden fan and can't spell DickInson?

 

[Ultra Grump]

Dave and Jim?
Dave MacGee and Jim Gorman (they kind of run the company)

I'm sorry, I'm not on a first-name basis with them - apparently you are (A-team? ). We also have a guy running the company named Jim Christiansen, and numerous other Daves and Jims in CMH. Get my point?

Has it? How, exactly?

Virtual Seniority List (it's on the crew ops site) and language was built into the contract.

Only if certain terms are met. Again, depends on the integration (whether there actually is one, among other issues).

Again, that would depend on the terms of integration.

Pilots above and below you will go to the Gulfstreams making you more senior in your fleet. In fact that is already happening to some extent. Not to mention the job security of adding several hundred more pilots and all their A/C to our seniority and inventory lists. It is like adding equity to our value.

No real effect that I can discern, yet. And pilots below you leaving a fleet do nothing but make you more junior in the fleet.

Other fracs already do. I'm pretty sure T-Bone mentioned XO Jet is doing progressives, for one.

As I stated, I was unsure about progressive training. I thought only 121 carriers could do it. If they do it, then I am very happy for XO Jet. I heard they are hiring. Good luck on your interview.

Right. Since we don't do progressive checkrides and XOJet does, I should go there, rather than...hmmm...let's see...getting progressive checkrides here? That is just an asinine statement, and does nothing for your credibility.

It is your right to not agree with things that are coming in the future. Personally, I look forward to all of them and that gets me hyped. I see them all as a benefit. Maybe not to me directly, but indirectly they will improve the overall health of the company which makes my life less stressful and easier.

I never said I didn't agree with any of them, I said they are not as fantastic as you made them out to be in your "I know a secret and you don't," six-year-old-style build-up in this thread. I will get excited when I see these changes actually being implemented. Until then, they are simply hoped-for changes. You know what they say, hope in one hand and crap in the other, and see which one fills up first.

BTW, where can I find these "announcements" of all these changes? The only thing I've heard for sure is that we're staying in CMH and that Gulfstream is building a "successor" aircraft.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Ultra Grump, I understand your skepticism to an extent, but it is bordering on cynicism.

Nobody ever accused me of being anything other than a cynic. Well, okay, maybe a few other choice words that would be censored here...

No, not everything save the EFB will make your life directly better (i despise Jepp revisions too, they are the spawn of the devil) but like CD and NJW are saying these other less tangible things will definitely secure your (our) futures and give us more pride in the company we work for. They will also open up more doors and opportunities for all which in my opinion is ALWAYS a good thing.

Yep. I'll believe it when I see it, and then I'll get excited about it.

If everyone were perfectly content at a company, there would be no need for a union, and nothing would ever improve. The only way improvements get made is when someone is dissatisfied with the status quo. You're welcome.