NetJets Unrest Puts Warren Buffett in a Rare Pinch

[realityman]

"Argumentative SOB". Running out of salient points are we? The name calling has started so I'm going to assume the answer is yes.

You have a knack for missing the bigger points anyway. You talk about Owner's "perception", or for you "optics", of the pilot in the recliner. His perception was that it was a work slowdown. My main point, which you have completely overlooked, was to put forth possibilities other than a work slowdown. Even "lazy tool" doesn't mean he was perpetrating a work slowdown. So I was attempting to alter his perception a little. You're getting all hung up on this optics thing. Fine, what he was doing was very poor optics. There you go. I'm not arguing with you on that point. I was just trying to get across the idea that Owner's "optics" of the situation, and his concurrent perception of the situation, may not have matched the reality.

By the way, I've had moments where I've felt a little "off" and needed to sit down for a bit. And after a while it passed and I was good the rest of the day. Once again you display a thought process where only one possibility exists. The coin with only one side. You like to pass definitive judgements even on hypothetical situations. You rarely Monday morning quarterback? Ha! You can't keep yourself from doing it every chance you get.

And no apologies needed, but I have never, and I do mean NEVER, said anything on these boards claiming NJA pilots give best in class service. Personally, I think the pilots at FLOPS, Flex, XO and others probably give great service too. We're all doing the same job and doing the best we can for our clients.

See you on Monday.

 

[ghostrider64]

NJAOwner, it's almost impossible to respond to your suggestion that you've seen first hand those that are willing to "delay" owner trips, in a effort to bring leverage against the company, without harming it's reputation.

But I'm going to try.

There is a legal document that we, as pilots, are not only taught to abide by, but are legally bound to do so by the FAA. It's called the MEL. If "ANYTHING" maintenance related comes up from the time we arrive at a plane, until the time we land and shut down at our destination, we are bound to stop and address it, no matter how insignificant you our anyone thinks it is. ITS THE LAW! If this delay is perceived by you as us doing something fishy, you'd be mistaken.

Recently a crew at a fractional, chose to ignore both the MEL and FARS and that crew was subsequently fined by the FAA, fortunately the fine was paid by the company they work for, unfortunately that sum was then deducted from their pay. Have any customers been asked to pay that fine, that in reality came about because the crew didn't want to delay a customer?

Perhaps what you are witnessing here, is pilots asking other pilots to not jeopardize their wallets, or JOBS. It's called being compliant. I suspect the above crew will never again jeopardize their jobs, for the convenience of others.

Ps, surgeons will never be scrutinized the same as a pilots, even if said surgeons kill someone. Surgeons simply head back to work Monday, pilots head to the boneyard, never to be seen or heard from again.

 

[Semore Butts]

Oh Jeez! I t won't matter what I say but here goes.

There is no way of knowing how many legs that guy in the chair may have already flown.

Scheduling sets up the schedule based on every takeoff and landing being precisely on time, no maintenance problems, owners on time, precisely according to the little line on the computer saying we are "legal" to do the trip (mostly).

Whether we tell them or not owner was late or we had MEL's to put in or ATC delays, it doesn't matter.

I have on many occasions had my takeoff time be the same as my landing time. (That just means they haven't told the owners anything, screw it, let the crew deal with it.)

I go away from the owners to make phone calls, get a quick bite.

Some places don't have the facilities to separate the pilots from the owners.

I once showed up at a place an hour and 1/2 early (We figured we'd ferry there early so we could get a break). We were jazzed because we figured we had time to eat, call momma and take a ******************** for once. I walk into the FBO and run into the owner. He says he's ready to go. He says we showed up early because he knows the crews will try to be there early if they can.

I'm just saying I don't know what the situation was with the guy in the chair. I do know that scheduling will take complete advantage of our loyalty to the owners to get the job done.

Be safe everybody, be safe, get home to your families and Forget about Netjets, Travel Air, Flight Options, Flexjet, Xojet!!!!! (Sorry if I missed anybody)

Lastly, you are worth every dime as much as the Airline pilots even though you do more!!!!

In unity, Semore

 

[NJAowner]

To all of you sticking up for owners in general, RealityMan and I are getting along fine. I was not a bit concerned with what some of your viewed as his "treatment of owners".

 

[acaTerry]

Realityman -- first -- this board is filled with posts from pilots imploring other pilots to do as much as possible to delay trips, for even the most minuscule of items, even ones not regarding safety, in order to cause pain and embarrassment to NJA. There must be thousands of them - and many pilots admitting to do it. All I am saying is I have experienced it and I do not think it endears the pilots to the owners (and quite frankly, the company does an outstanding job of self-inflicted harm so the pilots really don't need to add any).

Secondly, I did not realize this was an SAT verbal test exercise. I really did not spend much time choosing the word "chant" or "yell" as opposed to shout, speak, bellow, enthusiastically speak, etc. My fault. I guess your real calling is a criminal defense attorney or investigative reporting finding these massive discrepancies.

"Filled with"? Then please show me even 5 legitimate ones... not trolls. Every one of the posts I see on "our private" board, AND all the union communications, are telling us NOT to do slowdowns, fake sick calls, etc. Give us some credit, we're not going to screw you guys.

 

[imacdog]

I think the owner satisfaction survey results speak for themselves when it comes to our flight crews.

 

[ghostrider64]

Yesterday Netjets posted an ad in the WSJ, thanking their employees for helping them. Too little too late. It wreaks of damage control and self delusion.

Pretty clear the EMT has begun to understand the damage they themselves are doing to the brand.

 

[T-1GUY]

Too little, too late. My Union speaks for me mofo!!!

 

[kevin_p]

To directly contradict Warren Buffett's assertion that he doesn't see pilots leaving, I'm leaving NetJets after 8 years and going to a legacy airline where my skills and experience are valued. It's a sad day because I loved the flying at NetJets, but after seeing the brand be destroyed and the product commoditized by Sokol and Hansell, I don't see it becoming a top tier career destination for pilots. Too much damage is done...to the brand, employee relationships, vendor relationships, and owner relationships.

It will continue to be a mediocre job -- a decent alternative to being on call 24 hours as a charter pilot and a consolation prize to those who aren't young enough to want to pursue a career at the major or national airlines. At this point, even Spirit would provide better career expectations. I believe management knows this and accepts it. I think it's the same type of job for the management team as well...just a stepping stone to something better. That explains the short-sighted decisions.

I wish everyone the best, and I fully support the pilots and the Union in their fight for top-tier pay and quality of life, but I don't think any amount of pilot unity can fix the management mistakes and myopia. For the sake of the employees and owners who remain, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Mooneymite]

To directly contradict Warren Buffett's assertion that he doesn't see pilots leaving, I'm leaving NetJets after 8 years ...
...
For the sake of the employees and owners who remain, I hope I'm wrong.

Good luck to you. As one "at the other end" of an aviation career, from my perspective, you are correct and making the right decision about NetJets.

I am mystified that anyone under 50 is staying.

 

[T-1GUY]

I left Netjets with seven years of experience. I was great at my job. I was highly experience in the airplane. I knew the airports we frequently flew into. I knew the gotchas, locations of the FBO's, common taxi routes and approaches. I knew all the techniques for getting the job done. I was proud to be able to turn the jet in twenty minutes. I was proud to be able to fly into Hawaii one day with all the special oceanic procedures and fly into Canada the next. I liked the job.

Unfortunately, I was never compensated well. I was on the seven and seven schedule and my gross pay was about $76,000 a year (after SEVEN years) with no upgrade or good future in sight.

I shopped my skills after I had my fill of the new Hansell regime. I was hired by a major airline two months later.

Today I find myself two weeks from completing my probation year. It was a lot of work and stress to leave, but the future looks very bright.

This month my schedule was three on four off. Next month I will gross about $9350 for the month. The company will contribute about another 20% towards my retirement this coming year. I have basic healthcare that I don't pay for. The benefits are too many to list. All the open time I want to pick up.

The funny thing is I'm still doing basically the same job. Still the same skill set. One company was willing to pay for having an experience pilot up front. The other company was not. Who would you want to work for?

Good luck Netjets pilots.

You are grossly underpaid for the job you do. Don't sell yourself short.

 

[gunfyter]

OK but no Rudy's for you

 

[T-1GUY]

so true...

 

[gutshotdraw]

Thanks to both of you gents for pointing out your reasons for leaving and I wish you both great good luck.

I am one of those "of a certain age" and seniority that no longer has enough career runway to make up the earnings hit by jumping to a major airline. I agree that ANYBODY under 50 and any FO under 58-60ish would be better served finding employment at most of the major or national carriers.

The rest of us need to resolve ourselves to fighting like hell to rescue this company and our careers from the black hole created by Sokol, Hansell, and Buffett.

Yes G4Dude, I'm talking to you.

 

[Mooneymite]

The rest of us need to resolve ourselves to fighting like hell to rescue this company and our careers from the black hole created by Sokol, Hansell, and Buffett.

Or, just quit and retire (again).

 

[gutshotdraw]

Or, just quit and retire (again).

Not quite of THAT age....yet. Or financial ability.

 

[G4dude]

Thanks to both of you gents for pointing out your reasons for leaving and I wish you both great good luck.

I am one of those "of a certain age" and seniority that no longer has enough career runway to make up the earnings hit by jumping to a major airline. I agree that ANYBODY under 50 and any FO under 58-60ish would be better served finding employment at most of the major or national carriers.

The rest of us need to resolve ourselves to fighting like hell to rescue this company and our careers from the black hole created by Sokol, Hansell, and Buffett.

Yes G4Dude, I'm talking to you.

I am listening. Just worried about the results of our tactics. I think Warren is already unhappy enough with us for having 4 Unions on the property. And I think a new owner would treat us badly compared to Warren.

 

[Mooneymite]

I think Warren is already unhappy enough with us for having 4 Unions on the property.

I don't think Uncle Warren gives a rat's rear-end about us, our unions, or our pay problems. Uncle Warren is only worried about HIS bottom line. If we want good relations with Uncle Warren NetJets needs to make lots of money. He doesn't care if those profits come from a union shop, or the devil himself.

Anyone who has worked for NetJets for more than 10 minutes is aware of the incredible waste and inefficiency. Hansell is trying to cover those problems with employee sacrifice instead of working on efficiency/productivity.

We need to make Hansell understand how expensive a shut down operation is. Hopefully we can do this without an actual shut-down.

Hansell is dangerous because his emotional hatred of unions clouds his judgement.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I am listening. Just worried about the results of our tactics. I think Warren is already unhappy enough with us for having 4 Unions on the property. And I think a new owner would treat us badly compared to Warren.

A) I don't CARE if Warren is unhappy with us. I'm unhappy with HIM.

B) Selling NetJets is an idle threat. NEVER HAPPEN. The Return on Invested Capital is too good.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I don't think Uncle Warren gives a rat's rear-end about us, our unions, or our pay problems. Uncle Warren is only worried about HIS bottom line. If we want good relations with Uncle Warren NetJets needs to make lots of money. He doesn't care if those profits come from a union shop, or the devil himself.

Anyone who has worked for NetJets for more than 10 minutes is aware of the incredible waste and inefficiency. Hansell is trying to cover those problems with employee sacrifice instead of working on efficiency/productivity.

We need to make Hansell understand how expensive a shut down operation is. Hopefully we can do this without an actual shut-down.

Hansell is dangerous because his emotional hatred of unions clouds his judgement.

Absolutely correct in all respects.

ESPECIALLY your last point.