NetJets Unrest Puts Warren Buffett in a Rare Pinch

[G4dude]

I'm not riling anyone up. The company has already done that.

I'm asking you questions. Questions you can't seem to answer. Questions you don't want to deal with.

You go back to the same old line of union thuggery.

I'm not just randomly choosing hardline statements. I'm asking you why is the company demanding this but you don't acknowledge it.

Keep riding that fence. Your theories have been proving wrong at every step and your only argument is you're getting bullied. You can't even support your own talking points.

You should be fired up. You should be disgusted that the company wants to destroy your benefits, reduce your pay, increase your work hours and decrease your time off.

But hey let everyone else do the heavy lifting for you.

See you at the Vue.

They want us to work harder and take less pay and benefits. We want to make more and work less. Why get angry during the early negotiations? Lets keep bargaining and lets see what the final product is that we can vote on. I don't understand getting angry. Of COURSE they want to give us less compensation. We want to make more, should that make the company mad at us? Grow up. It is not "disgusting" for the company to try to compensate us less. its not "disgusting" for us to want to be compensated more. The bargaining process is always this way. All we care about is the contract offer we vote on.

 

[T-1GUY]

They want us to work harder and take less pay and benefits. We want to make more and work less. Why get angry during the early negotiations? Lets keep bargaining and lets see what the final product is that we can vote on. I don't understand getting angry. Of COURSE they want to give us less compensation. We want to make more, should that make the company mad at us? Grow up. It is not "disgusting" for the company to try to compensate us less. its not "disgusting" for us to want to be compensated more. The bargaining process is always this way. All we care about is the contract offer we vote on.

The bargaining process is not always this way. Once again you show your ignorance on the matter. Please reference IBB 2007.

 

[Diesel]

They want us to work harder and take less pay and benefits. We want to make more and work less. Why get angry during the early negotiations? Lets keep bargaining and lets see what the final product is that we can vote on. I don't understand getting angry. Of COURSE they want to give us less compensation. We want to make more, should that make the company mad at us? Grow up. It is not "disgusting" for the company to try to compensate us less. its not "disgusting" for us to want to be compensated more. The bargaining process is always this way. All we care about is the contract offer we vote on.

Again enlighten us with your experience of negotiations. Please list all the union shops you worked for and what contracts that you have worked through.

The answer is 0. You have no experience in this landscape yet your coming here explaining to us how YOU think it should work.

So regale us with all your union experience and negotiation history. All of us can't wait to hear the depth of your experience as you seem to post here with such authority.

 

[G4dude]

Again enlighten us with your experience of negotiations. Please list all the union shops you worked for and what contracts that you have worked through.

The answer is 0. You have no experience in this landscape yet your coming here explaining to us how YOU think it should work.

So regale us with all your union experience and negotiation history. All of us can't wait to hear the depth of your experience as you seem to post here with such authority.

You are right. I have, however, seen plenty of union/management negotiations through the years, and have spent hours with ex Eastern pilots, one of whom was on the Strike Committee. The things they told me about union malfeasance would curl the hair of any normal person. And how the union would drum up anger in order to manipulate the group. One would think pilots were smarter than that, but I guess not. But you are right. This is my first personal rodeo with a union, and NJASAP seems to do a good job, but the emotional negotiating process and the "embarass Warren" campaign worries me and many of my colleagues on the doughty Guffstreams. On a side topic, maybe Warren will sell us to Santulli. I think that would be cool.

 

[Diesel]

You are right. I have, however, seen plenty of union/management negotiations through the years, and have spent hours with ex Eastern pilots, one of whom was on the Strike Committee. The things they told me about union malfeasance would curl the hair of any normal person. And how the union would drum up anger in order to manipulate the group. One would think pilots were smarter than that, but I guess not. But you are right. This is my first personal rodeo with a union, and NJASAP seems to do a good job, but the emotional negotiating process and the "embarass Warren" campaign worries me and many of my colleagues on the doughty Guffstreams. On a side topic, maybe Warren will sell us to Santulli. I think that would be cool.

So that's clear you have no union experience. Your experience is hearing some war stories about one of the most famous strikes in aviation. If we were all able to be experts based on bar talk I'd be an surgeon after spending many hours with my dad. In the end though talk is not experience.

Glad we cleared that up. You're a pilot that is talking from no union experience but acting like an expert because you are offended.

Have you volunteered for the union at all to learn more?
Have you logged into the union messageboard?
Are you receiving the weekly updates from the union? Are you reading it?
Are you staying informed?
Are you a dues payer or a fees payer?
Have you read the fud book that is for sale?

You can't be spoonfed your whole life. I know it's the easy path but maybe you should take some time and get some education.

You're quick to jump on the union but only because it offends you. Not due to experience.

 

[G4dude]

So that's clear you have no union experience. Your experience is hearing some war stories about one of the most famous strikes in aviation. If we were all able to be experts based on bar talk I'd be an surgeon after spending many hours with my dad. In the end though talk is not experience.

Glad we cleared that up. You're a pilot that is talking from no union experience but acting like an expert because you are offended.

Have you volunteered for the union at all to learn more?
Have you logged into the union messageboard?
Are you receiving the weekly updates from the union? Are you reading it?
Are you staying informed?
Are you a dues payer or a fees payer?
Have you read the fud book that is for sale?

You can't be spoonfed your whole life. I know it's the easy path but maybe you should take some time and get some education.

You're quick to jump on the union but only because it offends you. Not due to experience.

I disagree with the union tactics and the behavior of the goons like you. You are a well known union activist, with whom I have many disagreements. I pay dues. I have been on the union message board, and thought it sophomoric and rather embarassing. I fly for NJA, and am reasonably informed for that reason. What really frosts you is that I actually will come a board and disagree with you. You are not used to that and react vehemently and crassly, which is normal for goons. The union updates read like a propoganda brochure from some street corner anarchist group. I don't disagree with you because I am uninformed, but because I have the same knowledge as you but have come to different conclusions. The War Stories you refer to? They were gut wrenching stories from guys whose careers had been seriously damaged by the Machinists Union at Eastern. Did you know some of the Eastern pilots met with Borman secretly to offer the union's help in fighting the machinists? He turned them down, thought he could manage without the huge fracture that would result from one union fighting another.

 

[Diesel]

I don't care that you disagree with me. That is what makes life interesting. What I do care is that your view is so myopic and so focused on hating the union that you don't see the big picture. You say everything the union does is sophomoric, but you don't reference anything the company does.

Your experience in unions and negotiations is nil except for a few eastern friends. When called out on it you attack the thug lifestyle, but it's you who inflame on a anonymous messagboard. You won't express your views at the vue in savannah.

We come to different conclusions because I have the experience and background that this story has already been written once. You come to your conclusions because you have no experience in these matters. You have nothing to draw from. Do you think 3000 pilots are all wrong and you're the only guy right?

I'm a well known anybody. I'm not an activist I'm a volunteer. I'm making sure that our new contract is something to be proud of. You're a fence sitter who talks about crossing a picket line on an anonymous message board. I've never once heard you say that your plan in the company of pilots. I'll be sure to ask you about it next time I see you.

Nothing frosts me, especially someone that is using anonymity to voice their argument which they haven't been able to answer one question about.

Will we see you picketing in Omaha? If you are working I hope that you will support your brothers and sisters by paying for s flight or hotel room for them. Will you be doing that?

 

[G4dude]

I don't care that you disagree with me. That is what makes life interesting. What I do care is that your view is so myopic and so focused on hating the union that you don't see the big picture. You say everything the union does is sophomoric, but you don't reference anything the company does.

Your experience in unions and negotiations is nil except for a few eastern friends. When called out on it you attack the thug lifestyle, but it's you who inflame on a anonymous messagboard. You won't express your views at the vue in savannah.

We come to different conclusions because I have the experience and background that this story has already been written once. You come to your conclusions because you have no experience in these matters. You have nothing to draw from. Do you think 3000 pilots are all wrong and you're the only guy right?

I'm a well known anybody. I'm not an activist I'm a volunteer. I'm making sure that our new contract is something to be proud of. You're a fence sitter who talks about crossing a picket line on an anonymous message board. I've never once heard you say that your plan in the company of pilots. I'll be sure to ask you about it next time I see you.

Nothing frosts me, especially someone that is using anonymity to voice their argument which they haven't been able to answer one question about.

Will we see you picketing in Omaha? If you are working I hope that you will support your brothers and sisters by paying for s flight or hotel room for them. Will you be doing that?

I post anonymously precisely because union goons, maybe not you, would mistreat me if they knew who I am. I will NOT picket in Omaha, not because I don't want us to get a good deal, but because I think it is the wrong tactic. I want the same thing you want, but feel the union tactics will backfire. I care about our "brothers and sisters" just as much as you do. BTW, you pretend that I am the only pro free market guy at NJA, and I KNOW you know better, because you are on the Guffstream too. A lot of pilots here agree with me, they just don't have the intestinal fortitude (UNDERSTANDABLY) to post here or elsewhere. Because of the vitriol from the goons. Also, I express my views all the time to my fellow pilots, and they do the same with me. At the Vue and elsewhere.

 

[G4dude]

I don't care that you disagree with me. That is what makes life interesting. What I do care is that your view is so myopic and so focused on hating the union that you don't see the big picture. You say everything the union does is sophomoric, but you don't reference anything the company does.

Your experience in unions and negotiations is nil except for a few eastern friends. When called out on it you attack the thug lifestyle, but it's you who inflame on a anonymous messagboard. You won't express your views at the vue in savannah.

We come to different conclusions because I have the experience and background that this story has already been written once. You come to your conclusions because you have no experience in these matters. You have nothing to draw from. Do you think 3000 pilots are all wrong and you're the only guy right?

I'm a well known anybody. I'm not an activist I'm a volunteer. I'm making sure that our new contract is something to be proud of. You're a fence sitter who talks about crossing a picket line on an anonymous message board. I've never once heard you say that your plan in the company of pilots. I'll be sure to ask you about it next time I see you.

Nothing frosts me, especially someone that is using anonymity to voice their argument which they haven't been able to answer one question about.

Will we see you picketing in Omaha? If you are working I hope that you will support your brothers and sisters by paying for s flight or hotel room for them. Will you be doing that?

In order to cool the rhetoric a little, I want to say this. You are passionate and sincere in what you believe. I just wish you could give people like me credit for being the same.

 

[G4dude]

Ready for another union goon story? When the previous negotiations were going hot and heavy, two of my colleagues, in separate incidents, saw NJA pilots begin their preflight by turning on the landing/taxi lights. Then go inside for a while, coming out later to write up the broken bulb and grounding the plane.