NetJets Unrest Puts Warren Buffett in a Rare Pinch

[Diesel]

I get it. Unions need solidarity to win. I just don't agree with coercion and arm twisting to get it. Just a philosophical difference for me.

I still contend that you have the perfect situation for the union in this negotiation. It can't get any better for you. The only thing that would make your case stronger is if Jordan comes out and openly declares that he's the anti-Christ.

Do you need coercion to win what should be a slam dunk for the union? You should be focusing on building consensus, not threatening people, which just drives people away.

If you guys can't win in this situation then you have much larger problems to deal with.

Were you ever in a fraternity? The military? Brotherhood and knowing which side to be on.

Nobody is saying coercion to win but there are consequences to crossing a picket line.

We don't do it to other unions at a hotel and we expect our own brothers to show the same respect.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Were you ever in a fraternity? The military? Brotherhood and knowing which side to be on.

Nobody is saying coercion to win but there are consequences to crossing a picket line.

We don't do it to other unions at a hotel and we expect our own brothers to show the same respect.

I spent over a decade in the Army. I know what you are referring to. Like I said, I get it. I just think there are better ways to get your point across.

That said, people should be free to speak their minds and have an open exchange of ideas without being attacked and derided. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. When the sh!t hits the fan is when it is time to close ranks. You think that time is now...I think it is when a strike actually occurs.

 

[Diesel]

I spent over a decade in the Army. I know what you are referring to. Like I said, I get it. I just think there are better ways to get your point across.

That said, people should be free to speak their minds and have an open exchange of ideas without being attacked and derided. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. When the sh!t hits the fan is when it is time to close ranks. You think that time is now...I think it is when a strike actually occurs.

10 years in the army. Huh. Interesting I would have never guessed.

But you said it yourself the company is looking for that 50 + 1. They are looking for the weakness in the armor. They have come to play and that's why it has to be a multi pronged approach.

Closing ranks and educating the members. The company already has their hall monitors at the fbo's so we need to make sure we close ranks and don't listen to the propaganda. Now more than ever we need to support our union to make sure the company knows that 50 +1 isn't going to work and that we have come to play too.

The company is making it a lot easier due to greed of not only wanting status quo but concessions.

My number one question I get asked by the group of pilots I fly with is when do you think the contract will be done. This being their first contract experience.

My answer is always the same. It is when YOU have had enough. When YOU have been screwed for the last time. When YOU decide the downward slide of your qol has gotten past he acceptable point.

Until then don't bitch about the contract being done because YOU aren't at that point yet.

 

[NJAowner]

The BIG mistake I see in the strategies of both sides is that BOTH management and the union are doing a fine job of alienating the owners. I do not see that as a good result for either side. I do know that the owners will land quite fine and have good, safe private jet aviation alternatives.

In 2006-2007 RTS and the NJA marketing machine had owners convinced that NJA was the only game in town and owners, as a group, had immense loyalty to RTS/NJA. Now most of that loyalty is gone and there exists serious and good competition to NJA (the market is to be viewed as private jet aviation not just fractional ownership).

 

[T-1GUY]

There will always be jobs for competent pilots, today and for the next decade. If Netjets doesn't want highly experienced pilots, they will get what they pay for. This would concern me when riding in the back...

 

[NJAowner]

T-1 -- major assumption is that we will continue to ride in the back of a NJ jet. All I am saying is there is a quite a bit of effort (which is effective) which is being directed at alienating the owners. The logic of "inconvenience the owners so much that they complain to management" is very faulty. The first step may be a complaint to management, the second step may be to go elsewhere. All I can say is that I have been in favor of higher compensation for the pilots for years. But after being subjected to "work slowdowns" and the such, very little girls (probably 7-8 years old?) yelling at me from "informational pickets", and SICs spending 15-20 minutes sitting in the back telling my wife and children how little they make instead of being in the cockpit and participating in the operation of the aircraft, the less understanding I am.

 

[T-1GUY]

Nja owner,

I'm not assuming anything. I left Netjets with eight years of experience for an operator that is willing to pay me top dollar for the experience that I bring to the table. The guy they hire off the street will take a few years to get up to speed with their operations. This will put a greater load on the left seater. The overall experience in the cockpit flying your family will be diminished. The only folks I
Give a ******************** about at Netjets are the employees who have been taking it up the ass for several years now. As always, you are free to fly on any operator your dollar chooses. Good luck.

 

[Diesel]

The pilots don't need to alienate the owners. We are the only line of defense that is keeping the owners.

The company screws up enough that they do that job for us. We continue to look like heroes when we save the day or point out how their "plan" could never work and it was never a plan.

The owners know when they aren't getting the whole story. They know when the cuts have been so deep that they aren't getting the service they should expect and pay for.

 

[Semore Butts]

But after being subjected to "work slowdowns"

Owner, I am a big fan of yours as you know. No work slowdown from me. But, airplanes are breaking all over the place, becoming dilapidated.
Scheduling works us until we squeal.
Our hands are tied. Excessive, unrealistic scheduling leading to fatigue calls, broken aircraft, these things directly effect you, and there is nothing we can do as pilots to prevent it.
We are the enemy of management and it's incredible because we are what makes to whole show work. I would have to submit that I'm sad to hear that a crew member was venting to your wife regarding our present situation.
It is management and management alone that is responsible for our present predicament.
You know better than I scores of companies that have been run into the ground by management. (While CEO's are paid millions in bonuses)
We haven't received and extravagant raise that is breaking the company. If we get some great contract and that happens then you can blame us. But, respectfully "owner", there is no way this can be laid on us.
This company just started a slow roll towards a full stall under the sub par contract we are on right now.
I do not see how anyone with a clear conscience can blame us as pilots for the state of Netjets.
We do not make these decisions, management does.
Take care "Owner", I hope you are well and prospering. I am still flattered that you invited me for a beer long ago. Someday I hope we get to have it.



Take care, Semore

 

[Hawkered]

T-1 -- major assumption is that we will continue to ride in the back of a NJ jet. All I am saying is there is a quite a bit of effort (which is effective) which is being directed at alienating the owners. The logic of "inconvenience the owners so much that they complain to management" is very faulty. The first step may be a complaint to management, the second step may be to go elsewhere. All I can say is that I have been in favor of higher compensation for the pilots for years. But after being subjected to "work slowdowns" and the such, very little girls (probably 7-8 years old?) yelling at me from "informational pickets", and SICs spending 15-20 minutes sitting in the back telling my wife and children how little they make instead of being in the cockpit and participating in the operation of the aircraft, the less understanding I am.

I don't blame you! That's a bunch of bull right there!!!

 

[msculley6905]

I keep hearing that the pilot group was wanting to extend the current contract a few years ago and it's management's fault for opening it up. My only question is, why is the contract subpar now, but not then?

 

[Pervis]

I keep hearing that the pilot group was wanting to extend the current contract a few years ago and it's management's fault for opening it up. My only question is, why is the contract subpar now, but not then?

Nearly eight years into the current CBA without COLA and you need to ask that question? Unwavering demands for concessions in spite of record profits and you need to ask that question?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Nearly eight years into the current CBA without COLA and you need to ask that question? Unwavering demands for concessions in spite of record profits and you need to ask that question?

Just curious on the concessions that Jordan is demanding. Obviously that is a tough sell when the company is reporting excellent financial results.

Jordan claims they need these concessions to be 'more competitive'.

If I was at the negotiating table, I'd simply ask Jordan for the last four years of his W-2's to see how much money he has given back to the company to make it more competitive.

 

[FamilyGuy]

The BIG mistake I see in the strategies of both sides is that BOTH management and the union are doing a fine job of alienating the owners. I do not see that as a good result for either side. I do know that the owners will land quite fine and have good, safe private jet aviation alternatives.

In 2006-2007 RTS and the NJA marketing machine had owners convinced that NJA was the only game in town and owners, as a group, had immense loyalty to RTS/NJA. Now most of that loyalty is gone and there exists serious and good competition to NJA (the market is to be viewed as private jet aviation not just fractional ownership).

Excellent points.

RTS always understood that he couldn't be the cheapest provider, and he didn't want to be. That's why he focused so heavily on the sales and marketing side. The results spoke for themselves. As you noted above, NJ dominated the marketplace.

Unfortunately that lesson appears to be lost on the current leadership team. Jordan is focused on competing on price, which has precipitated a race to the bottom that he cant win.

NJ right now is coasting on the laurels and reputation that RTS built. How much longer that can last is anyone's guess.

 

[Pervis]

The company in all its benevolence reduced the monthly management fee to a 2.5% annual increase. The annual raise to captains until year 14 amounts to about $500/month. A fraction of the monthly management fee. FOs fare much worse. Many are now capped and will see no further increases while the management fees continue to rise.

Our salaries come from management fees. Even without COLA, our goals of a significant increase have already been paid for. One reason for concessions is to provide WB with greater returns, while the next breath suggests reducing fees to attract lower level bazillionaires-on our backs. Sorry Charlie. We simply want what we earn. How many pax go from one city to another because of JH? Let me answer that. Zero.

 

[realityman]

NJAOwner,

There is no work slowdown. Everything you are experiencing is a result of management's poor decisions.

The planes are getting old and aren't receiving the care planes of their vintage need to remain reliable. Basic things are being left undone until the last minute when the pilots step in and find themselves in a position where they need to fix it, but it may cause delays. For example, a plane goes into maintenance to have something repaired. When finished, it's scheduled for a passenger trip. The pilots are sent to the plane, and during preflight discover it needs oil and the oxygen serviced. Oil isn't too bad, but oftentimes it isn't easy to get someone to service the oxygen depending on location, day of week, and time of day. Passengers may find themselves delayed while the crew tries to get these things taken care of. The thing is, prior to this EMT, when a plane went in for any kind of maintenance, the mechanics were authorized to fix some things they found, including service items like oil and oxygen, so when a crew got there the plane was ready. This EMT has taken that authority away from the mechanics, and they have been told to fix ONLY what the plane went in for. Short term savings at YOUR expense of a delayed trip. And it looks like a work slowdown by the pilots.


In addition, they have fired at least one pilot for not writing something up, and disciplined others for supposedly writing too many things up. What are we supposed to do? At least for me, I will write up any and all discrepancies, no matter how small and insignificant, when and where I find them. This may appear to be a work slowdown, but I am protecting my license, career, and livelihood because if I'm going to be fired for something I'd rather it be for regulatory compliance so I at least depart with my license intact. Make no mistake, the company has put me in this position, not the union asking me to inconvenience you. It's not a work slowdown.

They are running us ragged out there. We're flying more, over longer duty days, with declining quality of rest accommodations and food. I have found it necessary to call fatigued more often than I ever have. It's not a work slowdown. I'm trying to protect my life, my partner's life, and yours. Sorry you'll be delayed. But would you rather be the Mr. Owner who was late, or the late Mr. Owner?

Finally, you and the other clients are our lifeblood. We, the pilots have not forgotten this, no matter how it appears. Nor has the union. Very sorry you're caught in the middle. Sadly, you need only look at other unionized operators with very good contracts to see how this will go. I absolutely HATE that it has to be this way, but unfortunately the only way we will prevail is when it becomes more painful for them to not give us what we want than to give it to us. I would prefer that you and our other clients stay with us, but if enough of you move on as a result of all this then the company will be back at the table to resolve this contract. Sucks for everyone, and I'd greatly prefer not doing that kind of damage, but this management team is following the same lousy path that has been traveled by most other unionized negotiations. Even RTS didn't come to the table with a good offer until we had lost 16 full aircraft worth of clients (his words).

I truly believe Netjets can recover from this damage, but it's going to require getting this done and more importantly, getting leadership with some vision and the ability to provide our clients with the value they expect for the money they're spending.

 

[Diesel]

Ps good on the father to show his daughter what standing up for what you believe in is right.

 

[msculley6905]

Nearly eight years into the current CBA without COLA and you need to ask that question? Unwavering demands for concessions in spite of record profits and you need to ask that question?

I'm obviously not a pilot, so forgive my ignorance, but COLA weren't in the last contract? And if not, why is that the company's fault?

What concessions other than helthcare are they asking? Everything we're told is that payscales (different than total compensation, i know) has not been asked to decrease. Not trolling, just truly wondering.

 

[Hawkered]

Ps good on the father to show his daughter what standing up for what you believe in is right.

She's not an employee or a union member, nor is she of age. Had no business being there!

 

[realityman]

I'm obviously not a pilot, so forgive my ignorance, but COLA weren't in the last contract? And if not, why is that the company's fault?

What concessions other than helthcare are they asking? Everything we're told is that payscales (different than total compensation, i know) has not been asked to decrease. Not trolling, just truly wondering.

Regarding your first statement, it is not the company's fault. There has been a learning curve for the pilots when it comes to CBA's. Also, we had a much better relationship with RTS (although he wasnt prone to "giving" us good things in our contract either) so it was difficult (and shortsighted) of us to envision a Netjets without him, instead dealing with an overtly hostile EMT hellbent on dragging this out forever and finishing with us having a worse contract.

About your second paragraph, there are plenty of things they want to take from us. However, to be clear, they have said they want us to take a 5% pay reduction. Yes pay, not compensation. If we were to accept everything they wanted our total compensation reduction would be far greater than 5%. But they have definitely stated they want a pay reduction as part of the total compensation reduction.