NetJets TA fails miserably

[Starman]

82% no vote.

1440 No
306 Yes

Guess Hawkered, Les Paul, Publishers and all the other naysayers can go crawl back into their holes now.

Come on Hawkered tell us how all those folks that signed the petition were going to vote yes on the TA.

 

[Heavy Set]

82% no vote.

1440 No
306 Yes

Guess Hawkered, Les Paul, Publishers and all the other naysayers can go crawl back into their holes now.

Come on Hawkered tell us how all those folks that signed the petition were going to vote yes on the TA.

Are you guys still going to use/rely on those gangster Teamsters? Or will you form a new union? Those Teamster guys are pathetic....

 

[FLYLOW22]

Baby steps. Baby steps my friend.

New MEC first.

Separate from the Local 284 is next.

An INDUSTRY LEADING contract to be proud of is next.

Down the road... after countless other enhancements are corrected... we will see if the Teamsters are worth keeping around.

At this point... I'd look for more from ASAP. (Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots).

 

[pilotyip]

Kiss of death

Industry leading contract, where have we heard those words before, lets see UAL, yep, DAL, yep, it certainly did wonders for those pilot groups.

 

[netjetwife]

An AWESOME display of unity--AGAIN!

A word of thanks to all those who have supported our cause.

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=104098498&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

 

[Dangerkitty]

Industry leading contract, where have we heard those words before, lets see UAL, yep, DAL, yep, it certainly did wonders for those pilot groups.

I have no dog in this hunt but I feel I need to comment anyway. To say that UAL's and DAL's woes are because of their pilots industry leading contracts and paychecks is incredibly shortsighted and ignorant.

There I feel better now. And no I am neither a UAL or DAL pilot.

 

[Heavy Set]

The point is that NJA pilots will hopefully be able to hammer out a contract that will at least be AN IMPROVEMENT over the proposed TA... I agree with FLYLOW22, baby steps at first. Look at the big picture and aim for an improvement in general and then work out the details later.

Very happy for you guys and gals.

 

[El Chupacabra]

The Yipster thinks we should all fly for free.

 

[pilotyip]

Get real

Hey danger kitty and elcid, no I do not think you should fly for free, but I think making $100K per year flying an airplane is a good wage. I have never seen it. The comment about UAL and DAL industry leading wages, is a fact of airline history. UAL was a profitable airline until their pilots held the airline hostage for a 35% increase, with sick outs, grounding flights, and other slowdowns. The instant that contract was signed UAL was no longer profitable. The high margin business traveler never came back. Even with the cutbacks, those top guys at UAL and DAL are still making close to $200K, most of us could live on that. Read the WSJ and Crandalls comments on Thursday 10-14. Airlines have to cave in to strikes if they want to survive; they do not give pay raises because it is best for the long-term survival of the company. What is ignorant is assuming you take more money from a company that is martially profitable.

 

[netjetwife]

Let's be fair, shall we?

Why is it that complaints of high wages are only directed at the pilots, and NOT management as well? Many of their salaries are outrageous! When my husband was laid off at AA, we watched the managers try to protect their own pay (it came out in the end) while calling for steep cuts throughout the pilotforce. The compensation given to just ONE of them, would have kept quite a few of the lower paid pilots on the payroll. Payraises and paycuts need to be applied fairly. I don't think that is usually the case and until it changes you should not be surprised that the pilots are defensive.
NJW

How about that 82%! Go SU!

 

[Diesel]

Burn baby burn.

And one of the MEC just resigned.

this day keeps getting better and better.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

And one of the MEC just resigned.

Which one? The little one? It doesn't surprise me anywhere near as much as the idea of them running for re-election

 

[pilotyip]

For wife

Why is every time, pilot salaries come, they are immediately compared to top management. Airlines can not even legally exist by the FAR’s without some of the members of top management. They regulated positions under Part 119. I saw an article in ATW in the past couple years that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1-% raise. Boy that raise would really make the pilot group happy. Top management possesses skills that allow them to move from job to job and command high salaries. When a CPA tax attorney making $100/yr in forced to look for another job, he will find he may have to settle for a $75K-$80K job. Pilots are unique in the high salary business and can only command high salaries because of a seniority system. When a pilot looses his job, he goes to the back of seniority line and may go from $125K per year to $30K as a new F/O. So preserving the seniority in your present position is almost always in the best interest of the pilot.

 

[El Chupacabra]

No one should make more than the pilots.... All management pukes should be limited to 80% of FO pay. Hopefully we can get this in the next TA

 

[pilotyip]

Ed cid get real

Without managment you would not have a job flying airplanes. Who would work in managment at those pay levels? Someone has to put an organization together before you get to push the go sticks forward. If you have the anwers, it your duty to step up and lead. Seeing an AV-8 in your IDS, you know about that

 

[El Chupacabra]

I didnt say get rid of management... Just want to give them an incentive to do their job. If they want to make the big bucks they got to make 'em for me. The Sky is the limit.

I want to give them the chance to be leaders. The way management should work is to SERVE the workers. The goal of management should be to LEAD the workers to Financial Success.

The way its done now is the more they screw the pilots the better off they are.

Knowing how to lead: I was taught that as a 1/LT when a Colonel said to me...

"Take care of your Marines and your Marines will take care of you."

It did not take me long as a civilian to learn thats not how Airline Management works. Management needs to learn how to run a business that does not make its profits off of underpaying pilots.

 

[pilotyip]

Exactly

My thoughts exactly, how do you get that management? Start your own operation? Become management? Shop and find a place with that managment?, I also do not have the answers. But trashing everyone in managment is not the answer either.

 

[Hawkered]

Well... I'm glad it did rejected! I am not surprised.

If Harold Powell and the Fab 5 had demonstrated what seems to be illegal election tampering, and it had been more obvious than it was made only a week ago, the rejection percentage would have been even higher. By at least one anyway.

I think at his point we should just get out of The Teamsters altogether!

 

[swberry]

Without managment you would not have a job flying airplanes.

And without pilots you would not have a job managing. Works both ways huh? No disrespect intended toward you pilotyip, but it SHOULD BE a team effort and at netjets it is no longer that. There is no leadership whatsoever. The onus is on management to lead. They have no idea how to do that.

 

[netjetwife]

The problem w/leaving Teamsters altogether, is that they have the money/dues. Do you really think they'll just hand it over and say "Good luck, go for it"???