NetJets TA fails miserably

[Starman]

82% no vote.

1440 No
306 Yes

Guess Hawkered, Les Paul, Publishers and all the other naysayers can go crawl back into their holes now.

Come on Hawkered tell us how all those folks that signed the petition were going to vote yes on the TA.

 

[Heavy Set]

82% no vote.

1440 No
306 Yes

Guess Hawkered, Les Paul, Publishers and all the other naysayers can go crawl back into their holes now.

Come on Hawkered tell us how all those folks that signed the petition were going to vote yes on the TA.

Are you guys still going to use/rely on those gangster Teamsters? Or will you form a new union? Those Teamster guys are pathetic....

 

[FLYLOW22]

Baby steps. Baby steps my friend.

New MEC first.

Separate from the Local 284 is next.

An INDUSTRY LEADING contract to be proud of is next.

Down the road... after countless other enhancements are corrected... we will see if the Teamsters are worth keeping around.

At this point... I'd look for more from ASAP. (Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots).

 

[pilotyip]

Kiss of death

Industry leading contract, where have we heard those words before, lets see UAL, yep, DAL, yep, it certainly did wonders for those pilot groups.

 

[netjetwife]

An AWESOME display of unity--AGAIN!

A word of thanks to all those who have supported our cause.

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=104098498&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

 

[Dangerkitty]

Industry leading contract, where have we heard those words before, lets see UAL, yep, DAL, yep, it certainly did wonders for those pilot groups.

I have no dog in this hunt but I feel I need to comment anyway. To say that UAL's and DAL's woes are because of their pilots industry leading contracts and paychecks is incredibly shortsighted and ignorant.

There I feel better now. And no I am neither a UAL or DAL pilot.

 

[Heavy Set]

The point is that NJA pilots will hopefully be able to hammer out a contract that will at least be AN IMPROVEMENT over the proposed TA... I agree with FLYLOW22, baby steps at first. Look at the big picture and aim for an improvement in general and then work out the details later.

Very happy for you guys and gals.

 

[El Chupacabra]

The Yipster thinks we should all fly for free.

 

[pilotyip]

Get real

Hey danger kitty and elcid, no I do not think you should fly for free, but I think making $100K per year flying an airplane is a good wage. I have never seen it. The comment about UAL and DAL industry leading wages, is a fact of airline history. UAL was a profitable airline until their pilots held the airline hostage for a 35% increase, with sick outs, grounding flights, and other slowdowns. The instant that contract was signed UAL was no longer profitable. The high margin business traveler never came back. Even with the cutbacks, those top guys at UAL and DAL are still making close to $200K, most of us could live on that. Read the WSJ and Crandalls comments on Thursday 10-14. Airlines have to cave in to strikes if they want to survive; they do not give pay raises because it is best for the long-term survival of the company. What is ignorant is assuming you take more money from a company that is martially profitable.

 

[netjetwife]

Let's be fair, shall we?

Why is it that complaints of high wages are only directed at the pilots, and NOT management as well? Many of their salaries are outrageous! When my husband was laid off at AA, we watched the managers try to protect their own pay (it came out in the end) while calling for steep cuts throughout the pilotforce. The compensation given to just ONE of them, would have kept quite a few of the lower paid pilots on the payroll. Payraises and paycuts need to be applied fairly. I don't think that is usually the case and until it changes you should not be surprised that the pilots are defensive.
NJW

How about that 82%! Go SU!

 

[Diesel]

Burn baby burn.

And one of the MEC just resigned.

this day keeps getting better and better.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

And one of the MEC just resigned.

Which one? The little one? It doesn't surprise me anywhere near as much as the idea of them running for re-election

 

[pilotyip]

For wife

Why is every time, pilot salaries come, they are immediately compared to top management. Airlines can not even legally exist by the FAR’s without some of the members of top management. They regulated positions under Part 119. I saw an article in ATW in the past couple years that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1-% raise. Boy that raise would really make the pilot group happy. Top management possesses skills that allow them to move from job to job and command high salaries. When a CPA tax attorney making $100/yr in forced to look for another job, he will find he may have to settle for a $75K-$80K job. Pilots are unique in the high salary business and can only command high salaries because of a seniority system. When a pilot looses his job, he goes to the back of seniority line and may go from $125K per year to $30K as a new F/O. So preserving the seniority in your present position is almost always in the best interest of the pilot.

 

[El Chupacabra]

No one should make more than the pilots.... All management pukes should be limited to 80% of FO pay. Hopefully we can get this in the next TA

 

[pilotyip]

Ed cid get real

Without managment you would not have a job flying airplanes. Who would work in managment at those pay levels? Someone has to put an organization together before you get to push the go sticks forward. If you have the anwers, it your duty to step up and lead. Seeing an AV-8 in your IDS, you know about that

 

[El Chupacabra]

I didnt say get rid of management... Just want to give them an incentive to do their job. If they want to make the big bucks they got to make 'em for me. The Sky is the limit.

I want to give them the chance to be leaders. The way management should work is to SERVE the workers. The goal of management should be to LEAD the workers to Financial Success.

The way its done now is the more they screw the pilots the better off they are.

Knowing how to lead: I was taught that as a 1/LT when a Colonel said to me...

"Take care of your Marines and your Marines will take care of you."

It did not take me long as a civilian to learn thats not how Airline Management works. Management needs to learn how to run a business that does not make its profits off of underpaying pilots.

 

[pilotyip]

Exactly

My thoughts exactly, how do you get that management? Start your own operation? Become management? Shop and find a place with that managment?, I also do not have the answers. But trashing everyone in managment is not the answer either.

 

[Hawkered]

Well... I'm glad it did rejected! I am not surprised.

If Harold Powell and the Fab 5 had demonstrated what seems to be illegal election tampering, and it had been more obvious than it was made only a week ago, the rejection percentage would have been even higher. By at least one anyway.

I think at his point we should just get out of The Teamsters altogether!

 

[swberry]

Without managment you would not have a job flying airplanes.

And without pilots you would not have a job managing. Works both ways huh? No disrespect intended toward you pilotyip, but it SHOULD BE a team effort and at netjets it is no longer that. There is no leadership whatsoever. The onus is on management to lead. They have no idea how to do that.

 

[netjetwife]

The problem w/leaving Teamsters altogether, is that they have the money/dues. Do you really think they'll just hand it over and say "Good luck, go for it"???

 

[Les Paul]

Knowing how to lead: I was taught that as a 1/LT when a Colonel said to me... "Take care of your Marines and your Marines will take care of you."

So it took until you got promoted to "1st Lt" for a "Colonel" to "teach" you that very basic bit of common sense.

Why wouldn't you learn that early on during PLC, OCS or AOCS, or at least as a newbie 2nd Lt?

Looks to me like you aren't who you claim to be, or you are simply making up simpleton "there I was" leadership trivia knowledge stories.

Les Paul

 

[Les Paul]

Guess Hawkered, Les Paul, Publishers and all the other naysayers can go crawl back into their holes now.

Maybe you should get YOUR facts straight before you get all giddy typing my name in your little rant.

If the PILOTS don't like the TA, then vote it down. I would have. Please show or quote me where I insisted how the Netjets Pilots should vote.

I had two points that I made on this TA.

First... be REALISTIC with your expectations.

Second.. DO NOT allow outsiders to dictate how YOU should vote. There was NOODGEJETWIFEY that was posting 100 posts a day, 24 hours a day, pressing THEIR agenda, insisting how the pilots should vote. And the spineless Netjets pilots on this forum refused to stand up to her. Pathetic...

Third... NOODGEJETWIFEY has already started their new 24 hour posting campaign, and pointing out what Netjets Pilots should be thinking and doing. Here is the proof:

Anyone seeing the error of their vote, can now give their support to SU and join the 82% of the pilotforce that is fighting for a good contract for everyone. When you read their posts and talk to them, you'll find that the SU leaders are very interested in helping the group pull together, mend rifts, and move forward to a better future.... blah, blah, blah...

Finally, you can try and be all condescending about me "crawling back into my hole"... but remember I wouldn't take a job a Netjets with the compensation package they offer, and the fact is that my "ROCK" that I crawl too pays me 5 times what you make genius.

Les Paul

 

[El Chupacabra]

So it took until you got promoted to "1st Lt" for a "Colonel" to "teach" you that very basic bit of common sense.

Why wouldn't you learn that early on during PLC, OCS or AOCS, or at least as a newbie 2nd Lt?

Looks to me like you aren't who you claim to be, or you are simply making up simpleton "there I was" leadership trivia knowledge stories.

Les Paul

You are a real bad dude, Mr Guitarman. Graduating from beating up Pilot's wives while hiding behind electrons I see.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks for the laugh, El Chupacabra! MOST of us understood your "training" comment perfectly. Some I've given up on entirely--they'll never "get it"!

 

[been-there]

I think making $100K per year flying an airplane is a good wage.

Low self worth! You are whats wrong with this industry.

 

[UPSer]

but I think making $100K per year flying an airplane is a good wage.

I Don't!

 

[netjetwife]

Let's not forget that pay is only ONE of the issues to be settled in a new TA. (my that sounds good...new TA...doesn't it?) The pilots' surveys will tell our new leadership what to fight for, and I have no doubt that they will do their best, including hiring experts if they need to, to get the most for the most. That said,balance, gentlemen/pilots, is an important feature of any good contract. Balance is built upon a foundation of fairness, something that was conspicuously absent in the rejected (by 82%!) TA. (rejected...that sounds good, too)

On our NJWives board, pay is also discussed. I want to say that those wives are not being greedy; they have no wish to "bite the hand that feeds them". They just want to see their husbands treated/paid like the professionals they are. They want to be able to afford a newer car (many of us drive vehicles over 7 yrs old--my car is a 1990 model) live in a safe neighborhood (many became trapped in areas that have gone downhill as they waited for a new contract) and set money aside for their children's education (the mothers of teenagers are particularly worried about this). No one, that I know, is asking for a lavish lifestyle; but everyone I know expects a contract that is FAIR!

Note: We are not discriminating against the husbands of female NJ pilots--none have asked to join our support group. Should any do so, we'll gladly change our name to NJ Spouses Group.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I Don't!

ME EITHER..

God forbid a pilot breaks out of middle-class and makes a decent salary....no need for that...

pathetic.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Let's not forget that pay is only ONE of the issues to be settled in a new TA. (my that sounds good...new TA...doesn't it?) The pilots' surveys will tell our new leadership what to fight for, and I have no doubt that they will do their best, including hiring experts if they need to, to get the most for the most. That said,balance, gentlemen/pilots, is an important feature of any good contract. Balance is built upon a foundation of fairness, something that was conspicuously absent in the rejected (by 82%!) TA. (rejected...that sounds good, too)

On our NJWives board, pay is also discussed. I want to say that those wives are not being greedy; they have no wish to "bite the hand that feeds them". They just want to see their husbands treated/paid like the professionals they are. They want to be able to afford a newer car (many of us drive vehicles over 7 yrs old--my car is a 1990 model) live in a safe neighborhood (many became trapped in areas that have gone downhill as they waited for a new contract) and set money aside for their children's education (the mothers of teenagers are particularly worried about this). No one, that I know, is asking for a lavish lifestyle; but everyone I know expects a contract that is FAIR!

Note: We are not discriminating against the husbands of female NJ pilots--none have asked to join our support group. Should any do so, we'll gladly change our name to NJ Spouses Group.

Dear God, someone put a muzzle on this...

 

[Diesel]

ME EITHER..

God forbid a pilot breaks out of middle-class and makes a decent salary....no need for that...

pathetic.

Are you kidding me? G200 and I agree on something.