NetJets Strike Vote Fails

[FLYLOW22]

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[PMVULB AvMgr]

It's the FAA that mandates duty limits.

Thanks much, I run a major flt department, I believe I am aware of FAA regs!

 

[Just Peachy]

Mr Av Mgr

Did you call your company service rep and ask WHY this crew was assigned to your flt which you specifically required a min time trip?

I dont balme you for being upset, YOU are not getting your moneys worth and neither are the pilots. This kinda crap goes on ALL the time. And since we cannot seem to get any more money out of Mgmt, we are giving Mgmt their moneys worth..... by not catching screw-ups, not being pro-active, operating the plane to the letter of FOM, etc.

I hope more like you will give the company hell and leave, if enough cutstomers do this, the company will get the message.

But on the other hand will the company do anything about it? They seem to be happy to have signed up a lot of Marquis cutomers, which cut into the regular owners time and availablity of the planes.

Its been mentioned before on this board, if the help cant get a decent contract, let the company go down in flames, Im all for it. A lot of us are just holding on to get the back pay check if and when this thing is settled.

There will be a lot of hiring at NJA when the contract finally comes out ....... if they are still around.

 

[Majik]

Nobody likes it when something like this happens. It appears that you are fueling the fire of the "attitude." It is unfortunate and somebody, somewhere made an error that caused the issue. If it was scheduling then it needs to be corrected. If it was pilots excerising their god given right to proceede as slowly as possible in preflight and reviewing the brief until they would go over on duty time, then that needs to be corrected. It used to be that everyone worked to give the Owners the NetJets experience, but more and more the Owners recieve the Strong Union ecperience and they don't like the "attitude."

I want to give you a different perspective on your comment (that I bolded). Let's see how you feel about your wonderful Santulli if I change a few words in your sentence...

If it was Santulli exercising his god given right to proceed as slowly as possible in negotiating this contract, then that needs to be corrected.

See what I mean? Why is it wrong for the pilots to exercise their god given right (if they were) and yet you see nothing wrong with Santulli creating all of this ill will among his employees by exercising his god given right by delaying this contract to save all of this extra money?

Why is your criticism aimed at the pilots and not at the man responsible for all of this animosity?

 

[PMVULB AvMgr]

Originally Posted by PMVULB AvMgr
As an owner, I had a request where I told my account mgr that I need to upgrade my contracted aircraft type to a Citation X, since my passenger needed to get from SFO to NYC the quickest way possible. I made the time element of the request very clear.

Pax gets to the aircraft at SFO, only to be told by the crew that since they are going to go past their duty limits, they will stop in Columbus for a crew change!!!! No I'm sorry, no we don't know how this happened, no excuse what-so-ever!

This is a scheduling problem not a crew problem. How much time in advance did you give the schedulers? Over a weeks notice on the trip, with SPECIFIC mention that I needed the speed of the X to make for a short treancon flight. What were some of the other circumstances? How much clearer can I make it, I NEED THE SPEED! Did you complain to your Owner service rep? Obviously. What did they tell you? They couldn't believe it!

If this is the attitude displayed, you guys better be manning the life rafts. I'm sure we're not the only owner to have to put up with these types of childish games.

Exactly what did you want this crew to do? Fly past their FAA mandated duty day/flight time? I find it absolutely impossible to believe that this crew was out of time. My passenger was ON TIME for his departure!!! You need to wake up pal. Wake up for what reason. The mission was plain and clear, and was given to NJ that way. Unfortunately we see this more and more on the road. Once again...not the crews problem. Scheduling knew this crew was on the tail end of their day. Why am I not buying this?????

And when the contract comes up for renewal, you can bet that I'm going to be looking very closely at FX, CS & FO, something I would have never done before!

If you are this arrogant and ignorant of the rules we must abide by, then by all means, do us ALL a favor and look at the rest. I've been in Corporate Aviation for over 33 years now, and thankfully can say that I've been very successful in the business. You don't get that way by being arrogant and ignorant of any rules. I run one of the most respected flight departments on the East Coast, and every job I've ever had except my first one was offered to me, not me looking for it.

You made your beds, now lie in them!

Rest assured, we are laying in the bed that Netjets has made. I don't like it and you don't seem to like it.

Let me ask you this...do you ever feel this company has lied to you? Nothing is 100% true all the time, but this incident is BS. Do you feel your not getting your moneys worth of your "Netjets experience"? Do you feel you being squeezed out by card holders?

Have you even thought about this or do you just blame the crew for something they had no control over? I think the crew shafted us, I am certain of this. Also, the way it was done, without any kind of appolgy on their part, proves that.[/QUOTE]

 

[CMHTroll]

It is being corrected.

I want to give you a different perspective on your comment (that I bolded). Let's see how you feel about your wonderful Santulli if I change a few words in your sentence...

If it was Santulli exercising his god given right to proceed as slowly as possible in negotiating this contract, then that needs to be corrected.

See what I mean? Why is it wrong for the pilots to exercise their god given right (if they were) and yet you see nothing wrong with Santulli creating all of this ill will among his employees by exercising his god given right by delaying this contract to save all of this extra money?

Why is your criticism aimed at the pilots and not at the man responsible for all of this animosity?

My criticism to pilots is that Santulli and Boisture have been moving as fast as possible and have been since spring of 04. I cannot speak to issues of the old MEC or the previous management. The proceeding in a slow pace to Owners to hurt the business seems innapropiate at this time when the hold up in negociations is the Union MEC at this point and time. (If they had reviewed the books months ago as they are starting to do now we would not have wasted months.) Therefore Santulli has corrected his course and it is the MEC that is proceeding slowly and encouraging it's members to proceede slowly. A respectful but different opinion.

 

[PMVULB AvMgr]

Sounds to me like SCHEDULING should have allocated a different crew to your trip. There are several other operators who look at regulations with a bleary eye.

The trip was plain and clear, it required a crew that could fly nonstop on a CX from SFO to New York. What is so hard to understand about this? I'm just not buying the fact that scheduling did this to us.


The crew ran out of duty time.

Why if they indeed were short of duty time (which I don't believe they were) were they placed on this mission?

..........

 

[PMVULB AvMgr]

First, let me tell you that I feel your pain. Countless times the company hangs their pilots out there with no rhyme or reason as to why they screwed up an owner's request. I do believe that the crew had no knowledge of your trip requirements until you made it known to them. Otherwise, why would the company assign them your trip when they know and track every crew's duty day? Sounds like your problem lies with your Owner Services Team and Scheduling, not the pilots. We only do what the Head Shed tells us to and we won't break any FARs for you. If we did, trust me, the company would self-disclose us to the FAA in a heartbeat and we would be the ones left holding the bag. Maybe Flex Jet, Flight Options, Citation Shares, or some other pilots will break the rules for you but I wouldn't depend on it.

Again, sorry that Owner Services or Scheduling gave you the shaft. Hope you voice your concerns with the folks that caused you this inconvenience and not the pilots.

"The crew had no knowledge of our trip requirement?" I got the tail number HOURS before the trip, how could they have not been aware of the trip?

I don't deal with Owners Services, I deal with an account executive assigned to my account 24/7, so there is no way that there was any miscommunication there!

Anyone who breaks FAA rules flying one of my flights will hear it from me first, and it "ain't gonna be pretty"!

I firmly believe that this was the pilot's doing, not anyone else's.

 

[Majik]

My criticism to pilots is that Santulli and Boisture have been moving as fast as possible and have been since spring of 04. I cannot speak to issues of the old MEC or the previous management. The proceeding in a slow pace to Owners to hurt the business seems innapropiate at this time when the hold up in negociations is the Union MEC at this point and time. (If they had reviewed the books months ago as they are starting to do now we would not have wasted months.) Therefore Santulli has corrected his course and it is the MEC that is proceeding slowly and encouraging it's members to proceede slowly. A respectful but different opinion.

Santulli and Boisture are moving as fast as possible? Where do you get that crap? They are profit maximizers and will do ANYTHING to achieve that goal! They've even convinced you to proclaim that they are doing everything humanly possible to help their wonderful pilots and it's only the 5 MEC members that are ruining the company.
I don't care what the books say. Santulli is smart enough to move money from his right pocket (NJA) to his left (NJI) back rear (NJE) or back left pocket (EJM) so that no accountant could find it and, if he did, would determine that it was legal. The books, like statistics, mean only what the manipulator wants them to mean. Santulli is either going to pay market wages for his pilots or this place is going to slowly grind to a halt. This MEC is doing exactly what the membership polls requested they do. So when you mistakenly blame the MEC for contract delays, just say "the pilots" since that whose direction the MEC is acting on. Look, Santulli is the one that will make the final decision to either stop the bleeding or let NJA die. I'll accept either decision but I won't settle for something substandard and I won't break my back to go above and beyond until the profit maximizer makes up his mind.

 

[CMHTroll]

Bad attitude

Santulli and Boisture are moving as fast as possible? Where do you get that crap? They are profit maximizers and will do ANYTHING to achieve that goal! They've even convinced you to proclaim that they are doing everything humanly possible to help their wonderful pilots and it's only the 5 MEC members that are ruining the company.
I don't care what the books say. Santulli is smart enough to move money from his right pocket (NJA) to his left (NJI) back rear (NJE) or back left pocket (EJM) so that no accountant could find it and, if he did, would determine that it was legal. The books, like statistics, mean only what the manipulator wants them to mean. Santulli is either going to pay market wages for his pilots or this place is going to slowly grind to a halt. This MEC is doing exactly what the membership polls requested they do. So when you mistakenly blame the MEC for contract delays, just say "the pilots" since that whose direction the MEC is acting on. Look, Santulli is the one that will make the final decision to either stop the bleeding or let NJA die. I'll accept either decision but I won't settle for something substandard and I won't break my back to go above and beyond until the profit maximizer makes up his mind.

Obviously you have that bad attitude that Owners love to see. If the MEC is doing exactly what the pilots want them to do, why is it that more and more pilots are trying talk some sense to the head of your MEC as he has stated: many of pilots have contacted me on “issues of concern,” regarding the way they are handling negotiations? Rest assured that as long as the Union’s perspective is that ability to pay goes far beyond a ledger or Profit and Loss statement there will be no end to abeyance and no agreement. It is easy to see where you get your bad attitude, from the MEC Leadership.