NetJets Recalls

[fly4funcrj]

True, you have a point. But I can't see B.N. getting rid of all those former NJI folks. Then again, he has flat out lied to them in the past soooo... Time will tell. Lets hope for the best..

 

[FLYLOW22]

wow...you should be asking for raises and less days worked.

Did Section 6 begin yet?

 

[jetlag7]

Did Section 6 begin yet?

Contractually, they are supposed to sit down and begin talks in November.

 

[BentOver]

Contractually, they are supposed to sit down and begin talks in November.

That's what I don't completely understand.... The Union acts like the company is going to be oh so sinister and "decide" to re-negotiate the contract this(next)year..... When in reality it is supposed to be up for negotiation this year... Certain parameters have to be met to extend it. And even if those parameters were met it still doesn't mean the company must extend it...

It'll have been 5 years since IBB '07.... Don't see anything wrong with the fact that it is time to start negotiations again.

 

[jetlag7]

That's what I don't completely understand.... The Union acts like the company is going to be oh so sinister and "decide" to re-negotiate the contract this(next)year..... When in reality it is supposed to be up for negotiation this year... Certain parameters have to be met to extend it. And even if those parameters were met it still doesn't mean the company must extend it...

It'll have been 5 years since IBB '07.... Don't see anything wrong with the fact that it is time to start negotiations again.

The contract is amendable in May of 2013. If the company wishes to exercise the "Extension Option" (which takes it out until May 2016) they have to inform the Union by November of this year. Otherwise they are obligated to sit down and begin negotiations.

Even though they would be required to sit down with us, nothing compells either side to agree on anything.

I have heard the personal opinions of a few individual union leaders on whether or not they believe the option to extend will be utilized, but nothing I've heard from our Union implies anything "sinister"

Personally, I would be surprised if they utilized the Extension option at all and fully expect them to begin negotiations in November. They've already started to ramp-up the rhetoric to gain a little more leverage for company negotiators. ("We're making money, but we're not making enough money...." "the pilots continue to be our most expensive barrier to financial bliss..." "if you would only give us Scope relief, everything would be so much more Awesome!" "blah, blah, blah..." -- you get the idea...)

The Extension option requires that they provide CPI increases to our salaries. It also stipulates if International Revenue Flights fall below a certain threshold, they have to recall a number of pilots from furlough.

Why would they "tie their hands" this way when it would be easier (and cheaper) to simply sit down and drag negotiations out for a few years? (of course to play that game, they have to be certain we won't begin to explore "self-help" options)

 

[imacdog]

That's what I don't completely understand.... The Union acts like the company is going to be oh so sinister and "decide" to re-negotiate the contract this(next)year..... When in reality it is supposed to be up for negotiation this year... Certain parameters have to be met to extend it. And even if those parameters were met it still doesn't mean the company must extend it...

It'll have been 5 years since IBB '07.... Don't see anything wrong with the fact that it is time to start negotiations again.

I wonder how many of those weenies crying about a possible extension when the contract was voted in are hoping that the contract gets extended now?

 

[cldsfr79]

I rather not negotiate for a few more years. Not until we accelerate from the recession and start to grow again.

In today's climate, it's nothing but "bad news bears" if we negotiate now. The EMT is going to go after our benefits (make us start paying some if it, probably reduce coverage and push more expenses on us), and I'm sure the 401k 50% match will get attacked. Next they will want new scope and try to screw us like how the reginals killed the jobs over at the majors. Then they will change the wording for the downgrades and about 700 of us will get downgraded. And will it pass? Sure. They will promise a large increase in pay for captains and even higher increase for the super senior guys and there will be just enough votes to get this thing through.

 

[CALRepublic]

I rather not negotiate for a few more years. Not until we accelerate from the recession and start to grow again.

In today's climate, it's nothing but "bad news bears" if we negotiate now..

That is EXACTLY how I feel. but I'm afraid our CEO might wanna impress Mr. Buffet

 

[jtf]

Who believes a new contract will be done in less than a few years? The bulk of the pilots aren't going to reach their respective pay scale tops for a few more years and that should help a bit in having the will power to day no to concessions while giving the economy time to get going better. I really hope they don't extend. If they do that, we may very well be into another down cycle before getting anything done. I don't think the pilot group will be willing to sell out with the company making money, which they are hard pressed to show on the books by Berkshire. I could see management show smaller profits while putting the money into the debt payments instead, but they are under pressure to preform on paper at least a little which should make it very difficult to cry poor. Another advantage we have is that the bulk of the pilots here still have well over ten years before retirement and that should help gain no votes for contract concessions that slowly bleed a union out- like scope. Watch Delta's senior pilots sell out the entire airline industry since the scope they give up probably won't have time to bite them and they can make a bit more money now, though still less than the contract they had in 2000.

 

[BentOver]

I wonder how many of those weenies crying about a possible extension when the contract was voted in are hoping that the contract gets extended now?

Exactly....I remember hearing about the extension being a bad part of the IBB.. How we were all gonna get screwed with an extension. And how we were going to get stuck at IBB wages/work rules until 2016 or later...


Now, everyone wants it to extend (including the Union)..... Anything to start a doom and gloom scenario I guess.

Extend or not, NJASAP is not going to be negotiating in the Great Recession... Which is a good thing.

 

[rajflyboy]

Just say no

 

[ozpilot]

In today's climate, it's nothing but "bad news bears" if we negotiate now.

So how is that the Delta pilots are looking at a TA that gives them a 25% increase?

 

[OPECJet]

So how is that the Delta pilots are looking at a TA that gives them a 25% increase?

....and gives them a fistup with no lube on scope.

 

[BentOver]

BTW..Company still saying 2014 for expected start of recalls... Lots depends on Europe. Buzz over Globals and Phenoms is supposedly good. Competition still hurting us becasue they are cheaper..

From recurrent last week

 

[imacdog]

So how is that the Delta pilots are looking at a TA that gives them a 25% increase?

The same Delta guys that are working for a company that isn't getting slammed by a severe reduction in business, unlike NetJets?

 

[jtf]

Just selling off the scope on the cheap. They have pay rates for the crj900 and emb 175, but they look to be willing to sell that away for still less than the contract they got in 2000. Giving away the flying you should be doing for a few bucks is what it's killing the industry, but there they go again. If we sell scope at NJA in the next negotiation, I am pretty sure I will be fired before I get furloughed for fist fights with at least one who voted the scope away.

 

[AftCG182]

Figured it out on my own... Thanks-

 

[imacdog]

Yes it is, which is why the subcontracting needs to be extremely limited.

 

[realityman]

I rather not negotiate for a few more years. Not until we accelerate from the recession and start to grow again.

In today's climate, it's nothing but "bad news bears" if we negotiate now. The EMT is going to go after our benefits (make us start paying some if it, probably reduce coverage and push more expenses on us), and I'm sure the 401k 50% match will get attacked. Next they will want new scope and try to screw us like how the reginals killed the jobs over at the majors. Then they will change the wording for the downgrades and about 700 of us will get downgraded. And will it pass? Sure. They will promise a large increase in pay for captains and even higher increase for the super senior guys and there will be just enough votes to get this thing through.

First off, the company can't do any of that stuff simply because the contract is amenable. Our union would have to present it for a vote by the membership. I realize confidence in our union is pretty low, but having been here for over 15 years and knowing the players involved, I can give you my personal assurance that they would NEVER put out something like that for the membership to vote on UNLESS they were absolutely positive it would go down with a 98%+ "no" vote. That would send a great message to the company that they're barking up the wrong tree.

As for buying off the senior votes with big raises, really?! As one of those senior guys, I know better than to vote for a big raise while taking it in the shorts on scope, 401K, medical, vacation, etc.... Yeah, there might be a few who would accept that deal, but again, knowing quite a few senior folks I can tell you it wouldn't be many. Not nearly enough for something like that to pass.

But honestly, I don't see the company offering big raises to anybody, so I'm not too worried about them buying many folks off.

Is the company going to want concessions on pretty much everything? Of course!! But the question is, is it really something to worry about? I don't believe so. Who cares what they ask for? We'll probably be asking for the exact opposite of what they're asking for. This is called a traditional labor-management relationship. I wish we didn't have it, but we do. When was the last time you heard of ANY unionized company going into negotiations where the company walked into the room and said they'd be happy to work with the union on a good new contract? They ALWAYS walk in asking for breaks, even when things are good. And when was the last time a union walked into negotiations and initially said they'd be happy to work with the company on a crappy new contract?

They'll fight. We'll fight. Whoever has better determination will come out on top. It's nothing to lose any sleep over though. Everything the company will do is EXPECTED. The real question is, will we be able to effectively counter it?

 

[rajflyboy]

First off, the company can't do any of that stuff simply because the contract is amenable. Our union would have to present it for a vote by the membership. I realize confidence in our union is pretty low, but having been here for over 15 years and knowing the players involved, I can give you my personal assurance that they would NEVER put out something like that for the membership to vote on UNLESS they were absolutely positive it would go down with a 98%+ "no" vote. That would send a great message to the company that they're barking up the wrong tree.

As for buying off the senior votes with big raises, really?! As one of those senior guys, I know better than to vote for a big raise while taking it in the shorts on scope, 401K, medical, vacation, etc.... Yeah, there might be a few who would accept that deal, but again, knowing quite a few senior folks I can tell you it wouldn't be many. Not nearly enough for something like that to pass.

But honestly, I don't see the company offering big raises to anybody, so I'm not too worried about them buying many folks off.

Is the company going to want concessions on pretty much everything? Of course!! But the question is, is it really something to worry about? I don't believe so. Who cares what they ask for? We'll probably be asking for the exact opposite of what they're asking for. This is called a traditional labor-management relationship. I wish we didn't have it, but we do. When was the last time you heard of ANY unionized company going into negotiations where the company walked into the room and said they'd be happy to work with the union on a good new contract? They ALWAYS walk in asking for breaks, even when things are good. And when was the last time a union walked into negotiations and initially said they'd be happy to work with the company on a crappy new contract?

They'll fight. We'll fight. Whoever has better determination will come out on top. It's nothing to lose any sleep over though. Everything the company will do is EXPECTED. The real question is, will we be able to effectively counter it?

Pretty much the deal!

 

[jetlag7]

Don't know the significance of May 6th...sorry

That weekend was the Berkshire shareholders meeting. Everything was "just peaches" prior, but now that nobody from the EMT will be standing in front of the board for some time, the negative FUD campaign is starting to ramp up leading into Section 6.

Looks like they waited a month before launching the first turd across our bow... Did you read yesterday's ops update? Can't believe they threw the Falcon guys under the bus like that.

Poor planning and mis-management on their part does not constitute an emergency on our part. Nor does it give them the right to use our hard-working professional flight crews as scapegoats for their shortcomings.

 

[BentOver]

Glad I'm not the only one who saw that..... I like how the CBA cost the company so much money in sell-off fees... AND cost them one of their sell-off days (like it's gonna matter this quarter)...

FUD, and nothing more.. They're idiots who think the pilots don't know what's up.