NetJets Pilots Picket Airports at Start of Busy Memorial Day Travel Weekend

[FamilyGuy]

Originally Posted by FamilyGuy
Honestly, I cant figure out why unions continue to cling to these outdated methods.


You wouldn't. You are a company stooge. Are you even an employee of NJA? Doubt it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyGuy
How effective are they?



Quite effective. Ask NJA Sales how the PHL sales demo is going that was scheuled for the 7th?


Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyGuy
How many people even pay attention to picketers (or billboards) these days?



Many. Several hundred have contacted the Union so far.far.

WOO HOO! Several Hundred! Out of a country of 250 Million plus....You should be proud. Does that include all of the family members of the ardent union employees?

Why is it that you belittle the opinions of several hundred NJI pilots as being inconsequential yet you want to brag that several hundred people contacted the union.

 

[x402]

WOO HOO! Several Hundred! Out of a country of 250 Million plus....You should be proud. Does that include all of the family members of the ardent union employees?

Why is it that you belittle the opinions of several hundred NJI pilots as being inconsequential yet you want to brag that several hundred people contacted the union.

Boy, you are a dim bulb, several hundred owners. I can vouch for it personally. I have picked up at info sites and the response is overwhelmingly pro pilot. FROM THE OWNERS.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Hey Family Guy....in my past several tour I have had a number of owners come up and lend their support for this pilot group. They all pretty much say the same thing....they are tired of OS lying to them. The pilots aren't the problem...its the lack of service they are getting from CMH.....

Many of the owner are especially ticked off about the Marquis program. Their assets are being depreciate d by every Marquis flight. This may or may not be true but this is how many of the owners see it.

I guess its time to spin the truth to the owners like the way the company has been spinning to the non-union, hard working employees in the Casino.

Don't worry about us pilots.....you guys are blowing the show right there in CMH....the problem lies right under your noses. Operations needs to drive this company...not OS and the sales department.

 

[hydrarkt]

So, in case anyone doesn't know it yet. FamilyGuy and Mork are labor consultants, or most likely the same guy, who is paid by NJA to post managment views. There are others here too.

 

[FamilyGuy]

So, in case anyone doesn't know it yet. FamilyGuy and Mork are labor consultants, or most likely the same guy, who is paid by NJA to post managment views. There are others here too.

You'd really like that to be true, wouldn't you? It just torques you guys off to think that flight center employees dont agree with how you're conducting yourselves in these 'negotiations'...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most of us here in the flight center are just tired of hearing the constant yammering about how poorly the company is treating you....especially when there's a proposal for raises of 23%-40% on the table, and we are ordering lobster tails and steaks for you, and getting you a sedan when you dont want to take a taxi or a rental car.

Again - if you want to bash the company, fine, but in the same breath you should acknowledge all the good things that it offers. I've worked for a lot of different companies and learned over the years that none of them are perfect. All that experience also helps me to appreciate all the good things I see here at NetJets.

 

[Metro752]

picket picket, picket in the thicket, then paint my picket fence

 

[Diesel]

ahh yes i'm riding around in the back of a limo all day. You want to even know the truth why i'm in a limo.

Let's say like they did today they want me to rent a car and drive from TEB to FRG.

Now being a newengland guy i drive like a psycho but i couldn't find my way from one end of nyc to the other. I've driven into the city a couple of times but it's never been pretty.

So now you want me to find my way from teb to frg? Okay which bridge do I take? Tapanzee, GW, Verizano, or maybe it's a tunnel. Hudson river? Is it the Major deegan or the some other road. When will I get there. I've got no idea it's rush hour.

So i get in the back of a limo with a guy who actually knows where he's going. I can snooze while he fights traffic. he drives it all day he knows the shortcuts. We had one lady last week who i thought was going the wrong way but she was taking a shortcut to avoid Yankees traffic.

Let's not even talk about the liabilites of renting a car and killing a couple people.

If your going to spread dis information at least tell the whole story.

 

[buttercup]

ahh yes i'm riding around in the back of a limo all day. You want to even know the truth why i'm in a limo.

Let's say like they did today they want me to rent a car and drive from TEB to FRG.

Now being a newengland guy i drive like a psycho but i couldn't find my way from one end of nyc to the other. I've driven into the city a couple of times but it's never been pretty.

So now you want me to find my way from teb to frg? Okay which bridge do I take? Tapanzee, GW, Verizano, or maybe it's a tunnel. Hudson river? Is it the Major deegan or the some other road. When will I get there. I've got no idea it's rush hour.

So i get in the back of a limo with a guy who actually knows where he's going. I can snooze while he fights traffic. he drives it all day he knows the shortcuts. We had one lady last week who i thought was going the wrong way but she was taking a shortcut to avoid Yankees traffic.

Let's not even talk about the liabilites of renting a car and killing a couple people.

If your going to spread dis information at least tell the whole story.

Hey big guy I heard that limo really dropped you off down on Fire Island!!

 

[Diesel]

i can tell you the route to fire island from any place in the country. Problem is we don't go there.

I knew you'd have a fire island reference for me. Hey i saw that guy we had BBQ with said you were less angry than normal.

 

[dsptchrnja]

>>
Many of the owner are especially ticked off about the Marquis program. Their assets are being depreciate d by every Marquis flight. This may or may not be true but this is how many of the owners see it.

I guess its time to spin the truth to the owners like the way the company has been spinning to the non-union, hard working employees in the Casino.

Don't worry about us pilots.....you guys are blowing the show right there in CMH....the problem lies right under your noses. Operations needs to drive this company...not OS and the sales department.

....And the blame game continues.

 

[hydrarkt]

especially when there's a proposal for raises of 23%-40% on the table, and we are ordering lobster tails and steaks for you, and getting you a sedan when you dont want to take a taxi or a rental car.

You proved my point for me. If you REALLY worked in the flight center, you would know that the company does NOT order shellfish for the pilots. So your lobster tail comment is NOT true.

Also, and this is for those who are sincerely interested in the truth, that 23%-40% raise you talk about didn't include ANY health insurance or retirement. The offer included a REDUCTION in OT pay (No OT would be paid for over 12 hours of work in a day), extended days pay and required MORE work days. After paying for health insurance and funding some sort of retirment for his family, the pilot would be making about the same as he is now for more work. The proposal also allowed the company to get us home at 0300 on the day AFTER our last day.

Any comments on that??

 

[FamilyGuy]

You proved my point for me. If you REALLY worked in the flight center, you would know that the company does NOT order shellfish for the pilots. So your lobster tail comment is NOT true.

Yes, I know the company doesnt allow shellfish, but that doesnt seem to stop you guys from ordering it....and the sea bass, and the sushi, and the foie gras, and the steaks, and your atkins bars, etc....

Also, and this is for those who are sincerely interested in the truth, that 23%-40% raise you talk about didn't include ANY health insurance or retirement. The offer included a REDUCTION in OT pay (No OT would be paid for over 12 hours of work in a day), extended days pay and required MORE work days. After paying for health insurance and funding some sort of retirment for his family, the pilot would be making about the same as he is now for more work. The proposal also allowed the company to get us home at 0300 on the day AFTER our last day.

Any comments on that??

Just this comment from one of your fellow pilots in another thread:

Yes, it was two different offers. The first had six figures in it but we lost all of the bennies, insurance 401k etc...afraid not...

Second was the one they sent out to all. It was somewhat lower with the bennies back in, looked like a step in the right direction to me, except for no bidding of schedules AT ALL. I guess you just start your 6 on 6 off or 6 on 4 off and work it for the rest of your Netjet career. Doesn't work for me. Pay wise looked like a 23% increase for 6n6 and around 40% if I want no life on the 6n4.

Mute point though, this has turned into a battle of egos for both sides and neither will agree to anything just to spite the other...JMHO.

I find it interesting that you guys cant even agree on what's in the proposals from the company. You complain that the company posted on the intranet but you apparently arent even reading the proposals, just following the union line complaining about them....

And I do agree with JustInfo's musing that this has turned into a battle of egos rather than a negotiation.

 

[hydrarkt]

Yes, I know the company doesnt allow shellfish, but that doesnt seem to stop you guys from ordering it....and the sea bass, and the sushi, and the foie gras, and the steaks, and your atkins bars, etc....
I find it interesting that you guys cant even agree on what's in the proposals from the company. You complain that the company posted on the intranet but you apparently arent even reading the proposals, just following the union line complaining about them....
.

What do YOU want us to eat? Should we eat peanut butter and jelly for 7 days straight? The company has the option of shutting us down between flights so that we can go to lunch. We could leave the FBO, get a taxi and get something to eat. It is the COMPANY'S option, not ours. They choose to buy us food because it's a LOT cheaper for them to do that than to shut us down for 2 hours.... get the picture???

And as far as the company proposal.... even with the bennies, the pay is STILL too low. FAR too low. So it's a big fat NO!!!

This is fun

 

[dsptchrnja]

Also, and this is for those who are sincerely interested in the truth, that 23%-40% raise you talk about didn't include ANY health insurance or retirement.

This is the truth?

 

[FamilyGuy]

What do YOU want us to eat? Should we eat peanut butter and jelly for 7 days straight? The company has the option of shutting us down between flights so that we can go to lunch. We could leave the FBO, get a taxi and get something to eat. It is the COMPANY'S option, not ours. They choose to buy us food because it's a LOT cheaper for them to do that than to shut us down for 2 hours.... get the picture???

And as far as the company proposal.... even with the bennies, the pay is STILL too low. FAR too low. So it's a big fat NO!!!

This is fun

Typical union thinking....lets go from one extreme to the other.

There's a wide spectrum of food choices between PB&J and foie gras and sushi. No one is advocating either end of the spectrum as being acceptable choices for the pilot group. And if you were going out on your own to get food I doubt that you would be ordering the items that you want the company to buy for you in your crew food.

As for the pay....its been said on these boards numerous times - you have to look at the total package. All of these perks that the pilots enjoy on the road - sedans, high quality catered crew food, hilton hotels or better, etc... all cost money and reduce the pool of money that the company has to compensate you in wages.

Personally I think you're better off taking these enhanced perks (believe me, the airline crews dont get anything close to what you get) and a lower pay level since these perks are not taxed as income for you....but if you want to be in the higher tax bracket then go ahead....but be prepared to sacrifice some of these enhanced perks that you currently enjoy.

 

[buttercup]

i can tell you the route to fire island from any place in the country. Problem is we don't go there.

I knew you'd have a fire island reference for me. Hey i saw that guy we had BBQ with said you were less angry than normal.

Hey that's not a nice thing to say.. I don't go spouting everything I hear about you on a public forum

 

[x402]

(believe me, the airline crews dont get anything close to what you get)

Spending too much time behind that desk, we share the same hotels with airline crews. I can rattle off cities but the facts won't get in your way. As for food, airlines run on schedules with know rest periods built in. I also see 'crew food' on flight decks when they don't get the time to eat between legs.
I can assure you that sedans are for the companies benifit. Cabs often don't save money or provide a level of security they expect for ON DUTY crew. Remember, we aren't cabing to work, we are ON DUTY and the responsibilty of the Company. Cabbies for the most part speak little English and barely know the town better than you do.
One ride in 'race cab' down in LUK would have you singing a different tune. Expensive, no cost of doing business.
Most of us eat very modestly on the road, your high end meals are an not the norm. Salads and sandwiches are the standard with an occational lasagna, not pate and steaks.

 

[x402]

This is the truth?

Yes it is, last mediated session. They have tossed it all in the blender and come out with more silliness since then. It's a moving target hard to pin down.

 

[Some Dude]

Man Family Guy is so stupid. You have no idea what I eat on the road. Maybe you are just mad that you can't eat the glamous turkey sandwich that I get to eat while at work. Maybe you should stop eating the corn out of Boistures Sh!t and go down and eat at the cafeteria.

Yea that ride in a town car is real Bling Bling. Idiot don't you know that the union worked out rates with these car companies that are cheaper than the cabs. Keep posting your comments it just shows how little you know.

 

[Hogprint]

Typical union thinking....lets go from one extreme to the other.
?
There's a wide spectrum of food choices between PB&J and foie gras and sushi. No one is advocating either end of the spectrum as being acceptable choices for the pilot group. And if you were going out on your own to get food I doubt that you would be ordering the items that you want the company to buy for you in your crew food.

I have ordered off both ends of the spectrum. Every now and again I'll get a bag of beef jerkey (cost effective enough for you?) and other times the situation calls for a nice steak or hot pasta plate. The bottom line is this is the price of doing business.

As for the pay....its been said on these boards numerous times - you have to look at the total package. All of these perks that the pilots enjoy on the road - sedans, high quality catered crew food, hilton hotels or better, etc... all cost money and reduce the pool of money that the company has to compensate you in wages.

I have looked at the total package and it stinks. I've talked to pilots from all points of the spectrum save the regionals who are enjoying these types of perks. See above....Price of doing business.

Personally I think you're better off taking these enhanced perks (believe me, the airline crews dont get anything close to what you get) and a lower pay level since these perks are not taxed as income for you....but if you want to be in the higher tax bracket then go ahead....but be prepared to sacrifice some of these enhanced perks that you currently enjoy.

I don't know what airline crews your refering to...the Delta, US Airways, United, AA, Northwest pilots that ride the shuttle with me to Hilton et al, all enjoy great perks and more. They actually get to hang around sometimes and go see the cities we visit.

Your not so thinly veiled threat is the exact same line as Bridgeway Bobs...you can have more, but be prepared to sacrafice.

Hey Bob...It's OK to make money...If ever I make it to the next tax bracket then that will be my cross to bear. It doesn't bother my friends in other walks of life and others in this profession...I think I can handle it.