NetJets Pilots Picket Airports at Start of Busy Memorial Day Travel Weekend

[hydrarkt]

especially when there's a proposal for raises of 23%-40% on the table, and we are ordering lobster tails and steaks for you, and getting you a sedan when you dont want to take a taxi or a rental car.

You proved my point for me. If you REALLY worked in the flight center, you would know that the company does NOT order shellfish for the pilots. So your lobster tail comment is NOT true.

Also, and this is for those who are sincerely interested in the truth, that 23%-40% raise you talk about didn't include ANY health insurance or retirement. The offer included a REDUCTION in OT pay (No OT would be paid for over 12 hours of work in a day), extended days pay and required MORE work days. After paying for health insurance and funding some sort of retirment for his family, the pilot would be making about the same as he is now for more work. The proposal also allowed the company to get us home at 0300 on the day AFTER our last day.

Any comments on that??

 

[FamilyGuy]

You proved my point for me. If you REALLY worked in the flight center, you would know that the company does NOT order shellfish for the pilots. So your lobster tail comment is NOT true.

Yes, I know the company doesnt allow shellfish, but that doesnt seem to stop you guys from ordering it....and the sea bass, and the sushi, and the foie gras, and the steaks, and your atkins bars, etc....

Also, and this is for those who are sincerely interested in the truth, that 23%-40% raise you talk about didn't include ANY health insurance or retirement. The offer included a REDUCTION in OT pay (No OT would be paid for over 12 hours of work in a day), extended days pay and required MORE work days. After paying for health insurance and funding some sort of retirment for his family, the pilot would be making about the same as he is now for more work. The proposal also allowed the company to get us home at 0300 on the day AFTER our last day.

Any comments on that??

Just this comment from one of your fellow pilots in another thread:

Yes, it was two different offers. The first had six figures in it but we lost all of the bennies, insurance 401k etc...afraid not...

Second was the one they sent out to all. It was somewhat lower with the bennies back in, looked like a step in the right direction to me, except for no bidding of schedules AT ALL. I guess you just start your 6 on 6 off or 6 on 4 off and work it for the rest of your Netjet career. Doesn't work for me. Pay wise looked like a 23% increase for 6n6 and around 40% if I want no life on the 6n4.

Mute point though, this has turned into a battle of egos for both sides and neither will agree to anything just to spite the other...JMHO.

I find it interesting that you guys cant even agree on what's in the proposals from the company. You complain that the company posted on the intranet but you apparently arent even reading the proposals, just following the union line complaining about them....

And I do agree with JustInfo's musing that this has turned into a battle of egos rather than a negotiation.

 

[hydrarkt]

Yes, I know the company doesnt allow shellfish, but that doesnt seem to stop you guys from ordering it....and the sea bass, and the sushi, and the foie gras, and the steaks, and your atkins bars, etc....
I find it interesting that you guys cant even agree on what's in the proposals from the company. You complain that the company posted on the intranet but you apparently arent even reading the proposals, just following the union line complaining about them....
.

What do YOU want us to eat? Should we eat peanut butter and jelly for 7 days straight? The company has the option of shutting us down between flights so that we can go to lunch. We could leave the FBO, get a taxi and get something to eat. It is the COMPANY'S option, not ours. They choose to buy us food because it's a LOT cheaper for them to do that than to shut us down for 2 hours.... get the picture???

And as far as the company proposal.... even with the bennies, the pay is STILL too low. FAR too low. So it's a big fat NO!!!

This is fun

 

[dsptchrnja]

Also, and this is for those who are sincerely interested in the truth, that 23%-40% raise you talk about didn't include ANY health insurance or retirement.

This is the truth?

 

[FamilyGuy]

What do YOU want us to eat? Should we eat peanut butter and jelly for 7 days straight? The company has the option of shutting us down between flights so that we can go to lunch. We could leave the FBO, get a taxi and get something to eat. It is the COMPANY'S option, not ours. They choose to buy us food because it's a LOT cheaper for them to do that than to shut us down for 2 hours.... get the picture???

And as far as the company proposal.... even with the bennies, the pay is STILL too low. FAR too low. So it's a big fat NO!!!

This is fun

Typical union thinking....lets go from one extreme to the other.

There's a wide spectrum of food choices between PB&J and foie gras and sushi. No one is advocating either end of the spectrum as being acceptable choices for the pilot group. And if you were going out on your own to get food I doubt that you would be ordering the items that you want the company to buy for you in your crew food.

As for the pay....its been said on these boards numerous times - you have to look at the total package. All of these perks that the pilots enjoy on the road - sedans, high quality catered crew food, hilton hotels or better, etc... all cost money and reduce the pool of money that the company has to compensate you in wages.

Personally I think you're better off taking these enhanced perks (believe me, the airline crews dont get anything close to what you get) and a lower pay level since these perks are not taxed as income for you....but if you want to be in the higher tax bracket then go ahead....but be prepared to sacrifice some of these enhanced perks that you currently enjoy.

 

[buttercup]

i can tell you the route to fire island from any place in the country. Problem is we don't go there.

I knew you'd have a fire island reference for me. Hey i saw that guy we had BBQ with said you were less angry than normal.

Hey that's not a nice thing to say.. I don't go spouting everything I hear about you on a public forum

 

[x402]

(believe me, the airline crews dont get anything close to what you get)

Spending too much time behind that desk, we share the same hotels with airline crews. I can rattle off cities but the facts won't get in your way. As for food, airlines run on schedules with know rest periods built in. I also see 'crew food' on flight decks when they don't get the time to eat between legs.
I can assure you that sedans are for the companies benifit. Cabs often don't save money or provide a level of security they expect for ON DUTY crew. Remember, we aren't cabing to work, we are ON DUTY and the responsibilty of the Company. Cabbies for the most part speak little English and barely know the town better than you do.
One ride in 'race cab' down in LUK would have you singing a different tune. Expensive, no cost of doing business.
Most of us eat very modestly on the road, your high end meals are an not the norm. Salads and sandwiches are the standard with an occational lasagna, not pate and steaks.

 

[x402]

This is the truth?

Yes it is, last mediated session. They have tossed it all in the blender and come out with more silliness since then. It's a moving target hard to pin down.

 

[Some Dude]

Man Family Guy is so stupid. You have no idea what I eat on the road. Maybe you are just mad that you can't eat the glamous turkey sandwich that I get to eat while at work. Maybe you should stop eating the corn out of Boistures Sh!t and go down and eat at the cafeteria.

Yea that ride in a town car is real Bling Bling. Idiot don't you know that the union worked out rates with these car companies that are cheaper than the cabs. Keep posting your comments it just shows how little you know.

 

[Hogprint]

Typical union thinking....lets go from one extreme to the other.
?
There's a wide spectrum of food choices between PB&J and foie gras and sushi. No one is advocating either end of the spectrum as being acceptable choices for the pilot group. And if you were going out on your own to get food I doubt that you would be ordering the items that you want the company to buy for you in your crew food.

I have ordered off both ends of the spectrum. Every now and again I'll get a bag of beef jerkey (cost effective enough for you?) and other times the situation calls for a nice steak or hot pasta plate. The bottom line is this is the price of doing business.

As for the pay....its been said on these boards numerous times - you have to look at the total package. All of these perks that the pilots enjoy on the road - sedans, high quality catered crew food, hilton hotels or better, etc... all cost money and reduce the pool of money that the company has to compensate you in wages.

I have looked at the total package and it stinks. I've talked to pilots from all points of the spectrum save the regionals who are enjoying these types of perks. See above....Price of doing business.

Personally I think you're better off taking these enhanced perks (believe me, the airline crews dont get anything close to what you get) and a lower pay level since these perks are not taxed as income for you....but if you want to be in the higher tax bracket then go ahead....but be prepared to sacrifice some of these enhanced perks that you currently enjoy.

I don't know what airline crews your refering to...the Delta, US Airways, United, AA, Northwest pilots that ride the shuttle with me to Hilton et al, all enjoy great perks and more. They actually get to hang around sometimes and go see the cities we visit.

Your not so thinly veiled threat is the exact same line as Bridgeway Bobs...you can have more, but be prepared to sacrafice.

Hey Bob...It's OK to make money...If ever I make it to the next tax bracket then that will be my cross to bear. It doesn't bother my friends in other walks of life and others in this profession...I think I can handle it.

 

[FamilyGuy]

ahh yes i'm riding around in the back of a limo all day. You want to even know the truth why i'm in a limo.

Let's say like they did today they want me to rent a car and drive from TEB to FRG.

Now being a newengland guy i drive like a psycho but i couldn't find my way from one end of nyc to the other. I've driven into the city a couple of times but it's never been pretty.

So now you want me to find my way from teb to frg? Okay which bridge do I take? Tapanzee, GW, Verizano, or maybe it's a tunnel. Hudson river? Is it the Major deegan or the some other road. When will I get there. I've got no idea it's rush hour.

So i get in the back of a limo with a guy who actually knows where he's going. I can snooze while he fights traffic. he drives it all day he knows the shortcuts. We had one lady last week who i thought was going the wrong way but she was taking a shortcut to avoid Yankees traffic.

Let's not even talk about the liabilites of renting a car and killing a couple people.

If your going to spread dis information at least tell the whole story.

I can assure you that sedans are for the companies benifit. Cabs often don't save money or provide a level of security they expect for ON DUTY crew. Remember, we aren't cabing to work, we are ON DUTY and the responsibilty of the Company. Cabbies for the most part speak little English and barely know the town better than you do.
One ride in 'race cab' down in LUK would have you singing a different tune. Expensive, no cost of doing business.

Do you guys actually sit around and think up these arguments? These arguments are so self serving and transparent they are hilarious....

You can fly a $20 million dollar business jet and have no problems with liabilities, but put you in a $20 thousand dollar rental car and all of a sudden you're squeamish? Sounds like you should turn in your drivers license and get your own personal chauffeur.....

Last time I checked, I thought that rental car companies were providing cars with GPS...but since pilots are so infallible you probably wont need it....

Cabs dont save money over a sedan? Cabs dont have the level of security you need? Last I checked, NJA wasnt flying to Beirut or Iraq...

Again, if you feel these enhanced perks are warranted and you insist on having them, then fine, but dont be surprised when that reduces the pool of money available to the pilots for raises....

 

[FamilyGuy]

Most of us eat very modestly on the road, your high end meals are an not the norm. Salads and sandwiches are the standard with an occational lasagna, not pate and steaks.

x402 - Yes, I agree with you. The vast majority of the pilots eat very modestly on the road and the high end meals that I cited are not the norm. But there are a few pilots out there that abuse the system, much like there are a few people that get on here and habitually trash a very good company.

 

[FLYLOW22]

WOO HOO! Several Hundred! Out of a country of 250 Million plus....You should be proud.

Thanks. We are. Our target audience is not 250 million McDonald's eaters. We are after our Owner base. A few thousand. 10% coverage after only picketing for a few months is pretty good I'd say. Pretty good indeed. Why would Local 1108 even care if Bill Smith in Wala Wala, WA knows our issues?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Yea that ride in a town car is real Bling Bling. Idiot don't you know that the union worked out rates with these car companies that are cheaper than the cabs. Keep posting your comments it just shows how little you know.

The union is now negotiating rates for sedans?

 

[FLYLOW22]

especially when there's a proposal for raises of 23%-40% on the table

40% times crap equals crap. Far below industry average for NBAA.

and we are ordering lobster tails and steaks for you, and getting you a sedan when you dont want to take a taxi or a rental car.

This statement proves you are either a dumbass or a liar.

FOM A1.10.2

f. THe following items are prohibited (as crewfood)

(1) Shellfish, to include crab, shrimp, lobster, scallops or any meal containing these types of shellfish.

Even a rookie day 1 FM knows this.

You are a liar me thinks. You are no FM at NJA.

 

[Hogprint]

The last time I cab'd it from EWR to HPN it was in rush hour traffic and two hours and $150 big ones later...

Late take off because they had tried to plan this down to the gnats @ss...

Took a sedan from TEB to LGA last week. It rang in at around $150. Looks to me it's a wash when in the BIG CITY.

I've turned down a rental in LAX because I didn't want to miss a turn and end up in WAATS and get caught in the cross fire of a gang war. Just ask ol' Reginald Denny bout that!

I have accepted a rental to tool across FLA at my leisure though.

Once again the point is we should have these options and there is no way these PERKS are going to disappear as long as NJA needs to get my butt from point A to B.

 

[Starman]

I don't do rentals while tooling around the country. Not now. Not ever. It's a simple plan that keeps me out of liability problems that haven't even been close to being addressed by this company. If you take a rental car on company business and get in a wreck, you are hanging your ass out a mile for a company that couldn't give a crap about you.

 

[x402]

Cabs dont save money over a sedan? Cabs dont have the level of security you need? Last I checked, NJA wasnt flying to Beirut or Iraq...


BOS/BED cab $75-80 sedan $70

APA/DEN cab $120+ sedan $90

LUV/DFW cab $50-70 sedan $60

Just paid for 3-4 meals.

The union is now negotiating rates for sedans?



Yes our Union travel committee has worked with the company for rates and perks.

NJA wasnt flying to Beirut or Iraq...


Please come with me the next time I have to overnight in DET, GYY, Peoria, East St Louis or some of the other garden spots we go to regularly. The drive/ride to the hotel is spectacular.We've had FA's terrified in a lost cab with a non english speaking driver.

Now as for us sitting around making this stuff up, it's only because it's so previlent in our day to day work that it rolls off the keyboards as though it's packaged. The pilot group mostly has the same experience and we still go out and provide quality service in spite of the landmines placed in our way by everyone from crazy cab drivers to owner services.

 

[Diesel]

Familyguy-

You know i wrote this long post explaining why sedans are safer than cabs and rental cars. Then i realized it doesn't matter. Even if you worked in the casino you stll have no control over what I do on the road. You just troll here along trying to pick fights.

X402-

We should send Angry Mike after familyguy. Him and his brother would explain to him real easy about how we kept him from getting his house reposesed.

 

[x402]

X402-

We should send Angry Mike after familyguy. Him and his brother would explain to him real easy about how we kept him from getting his house reposesed.[/QUOTE]

We should start with Amhed, from Bobcat Taxi. He's never happy and lives in CMH.

 

[Diesel]

Mike would go for a Dunkin Donuts Coffee

 

[Semore Butts]

Wrong about this one bro

Hey family guy,

Your wrong about this one.

The cabs are dangerous and untraceable. Cabby swiped my credit card in DAllas as I chased him down the street yelling for him to stop. The muther %&% saw me but didn't stop.

The bazzaar part was what he was telling me all the way from Signature Love to parking to get my car;

He was palastinian and that the "koran would not be fullfilled until every man woman and child Jew was dead"????????

Purchased 500 dollars worth of fuel within about 2 hours on my credit card for him and all his buddies. Also a couple hundred in groceries as well.

I had info on when and where I was picked up, and time. Cab company was no help at all. Covered his ass on every turn.

But ya wanna know who was interested?????

The FBI.... Pulled out the phone book and gave them a call.

They assigned me my very own agent, and they took it from there.. I had my information, and MAster card had theirs....OOOPS Mr cab man...

HAve also had a couple times when his buddies drove me and decided to take the long way.... OOOOPs Mr. cab man, I know where I am, turn this way!!!

Sedans are a fixed rate, and they and their employees are traceable. You can actually develope a working relationship with the company, trust me it helps.

FAmily dude, take a cab to work a few times, or down town. See if you aren't enlightened a bit. We have talked offline, I know you are a reasonable person.

HAve you ever been to Vancouver? Me neither, but picture me sending you there and telling you to get a rental from the south of town to the north of town to an FBO. Oh by the way, you are on the way to pick up a trip. I didn't have any ''onstar" either

So you airline hassle, rental pickup hassle, drive across vancouver hassle, turn in rental car hassle, and go start prepping an airplane hassle..

Crap, I'm about stressed out man.... Oh **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** wait, Time to go fly...

Now if you change the above name to Boston, you will be talking about an actual trip I did.

Lastly, I was spicked up in Atlantic city by a cab that took me to the airport. He was a native born American and drove numorous Netjet employees (From our maint base, the people there use hime to get us around (Again, traceable))

When I told him I was Netjets he laughed "Wow dude", "I make more then you"!

What could I say???

 

[FamilyGuy]

Hey family guy,

Your wrong about this one.

The cabs are dangerous and untraceable. Cabby swiped my credit card in DAllas as I chased him down the street yelling for him to stop. The muther %&% saw me but didn't stop.

The bazzaar part was what he was telling me all the way from Signature Love to parking to get my car;

He was palastinian and that the "koran would not be fullfilled until every man woman and child Jew was dead"????????

Purchased 500 dollars worth of fuel within about 2 hours on my credit card for him and all his buddies. Also a couple hundred in groceries as well.

I had info on when and where I was picked up, and time. Cab company was no help at all. Covered his ass on every turn.

But ya wanna know who was interested?????

The FBI.... Pulled out the phone book and gave them a call.

They assigned me my very own agent, and they took it from there.. I had my information, and MAster card had theirs....OOOPS Mr cab man...

HAve also had a couple times when his buddies drove me and decided to take the long way.... OOOOPs Mr. cab man, I know where I am, turn this way!!!

Sedans are a fixed rate, and they and their employees are traceable. You can actually develope a working relationship with the company, trust me it helps.

FAmily dude, take a cab to work a few times, or down town. See if you aren't enlightened a bit. We have talked offline, I know you are a reasonable person.

HAve you ever been to Vancouver? Me neither, but picture me sending you there and telling you to get a rental from the south of town to the north of town to an FBO. Oh by the way, you are on the way to pick up a trip. I didn't have any ''onstar" either

So you airline hassle, rental pickup hassle, drive across vancouver hassle, turn in rental car hassle, and go start prepping an airplane hassle..

Crap, I'm about stressed out man.... Oh **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** wait, Time to go fly...

Now if you change the above name to Boston, you will be talking about an actual trip I did.

Lastly, I was spicked up in Atlantic city by a cab that took me to the airport. He was a native born American and drove numorous Netjet employees (From our maint base, the people there use hime to get us around (Again, traceable))

When I told him I was Netjets he laughed "Wow dude", "I make more then you"!

What could I say???

Semore - you bring up some good points. There are times and places where sedans will make more sense than cabs. I have been in some cabs that did make me uncomfortable (Boston as well, imagine that).

I dont think there is a person in this company that would ever want another fellow employee to be placed in a dangerous situation....which is another attribute that I appreciate about working here.

The larger point, which I think got lost in the original message, is that there is a long laundry list of things that this company does very well, every day. The pilots, too, do a great job every day. The one problem, which everyone recognizes, is that your pay needs to be raised, and it will be.

 

[Diesel]

Man what's all the dig on boston? Sure the cab drivers don't know where they are going. Sure the cabs are crap. oooh wait nevermind.

Familyguy- You continue to post flame and then when somebody shows you the truth you back up quickly and are everyone's friend. It's total BS.

We had a FA had to call the troopers on the way from BOS to BED because the cab driver passed BED and kept on driving. The troopers pulled the cab over and arrested the cab driver.

But we're riding around in luxury sedans. Twist the truth in whatever fashion you want.

 

[cgmason1]

If you want to talk about scary company induced experiences-the last time I was in Boston I had to ride this vehicle all over the city with people on it that were quacking (yes quacking like a duck) like mad and then the vehicle which also happened to be amphibious went right into the river-tooled around for a bit-and then dropped us off at the only chinese food place in the North End.

Wait a minute-sorry that was my last vacation.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Cabs vs. Sedans

I have to speak up here and support the pilots on this one.



Riding around in cabs in this great land of ours is like sticking your head in a Pakistani trash can for 30 minutes, closing your eyes and spinning around in circles. We all could write novels on our “cab experiences.”

The cost is absolutely minimal between sedans and cabs anyway; this argument is a no brainer and I’m declaring the pilots victory………



Case closed; move on to the next argument

 

[FamilyGuy]

Familyguy- You continue to post flame and then when somebody shows you the truth you back up quickly and are everyone's friend. It's total BS.
QUOTE]

Diesel -not backing off at all. I will acknowledge that semore and several other pilots made accurate points that sometimes a sedan makes more sense than a cab. Its a point well made. I'll acknowledge when something I say isnt 100% accurate, and I hope you can do so as well.

The larger point in the original post that everyone seems to totally gloss over is that everyone needs to step back and realize that NetJets is a lot better than the way it is portrayed in many of the posts on this board. Sedans, catered meals, and quality hotels are just another example of the things this company does right, and I want people to acknowledge all the good things here when they are complaining about the few items that need to be addressed.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Family Guy....you are absolutely correct, there are many great things about NJ that isn't discussed on this board.

Our training department is, by far, one of the finest in the industry. The IOE program allows new timers to fly with experienced line Captains to learn the ropes and to get a feel for how things work......thus adding to the overall safety and efficiency of the total operation.....

....Ooooops...this just in.....Looks like the IOE program is going to be an thing of the past.....I guess scrapping it is also..."THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!!!!"

According to the powers to be, all a pilot need to do is go through the Flight Safety program and they qualify to be, as our salesmen put it, the FINEST trained pilots in the industry.

 

[Diesel]

Familyguy-

I'll explain it real slow because you are not a line pilot on the road. THAT"S A FACT.

The company provides us catering, sedans and quality hotels because that's the cost of doing buisness. No catering? Okay i'm taking my lunch break at applebees. Oh you have a flight that keeps me from eating all day. Sorry going to applebees. AND I HATE APPLEBEES but I'm hungry and have a headache. They provide crew meals not because they want to but because they have to. Every couple of months it comes up they are cutting crew meals then they realize that the cost of a crew meal is so insignificant to the operation of a jet it's not worth it. The crew is fed and keeps the jet running. The jet makes money.

Sedans- We've allready hit on this and you got shot down.

Quality hotels- Here is another example of how shortsighted you really are. We don't go home every night like you and see the wife or whatever. We spend half our life in a hotel room. Our union Hotel Comittee has negotiated rates, free internet and transportation that the company was just blowing money at. The Hotel Comitte asked the pilots what they want and then went to each hotel and made a deal. We had a lot of hotels changed and saved the company like 8 million dollars last year because we negotiated a rate and didn't take it up the A$$ by paying rack rate.

Good hotel rooms means safe and efficient pilots the next night the company knows this and the pilots know this. At my wife's airline they have had pilots held up and robbed at some of the crapholes they go to.

So yes from the outside you can look and say you get this and you get that but you're not on the line. Accept the fact you're not here and you can't walk a mile in my shoes.

 

[h25b]

Familyguy-

I'll explain it real slow because you are not a line pilot on the road. THAT"S A FACT.

The company provides us catering, sedans and quality hotels because that's the cost of doing buisness. No catering? Okay i'm taking my lunch break at applebees. Oh you have a flight that keeps me from eating all day. Sorry going to applebees. AND I HATE APPLEBEES but I'm hungry and have a headache. They provide crew meals not because they want to but because they have to. Every couple of months it comes up they are cutting crew meals then they realize that the cost of a crew meal is so insignificant to the operation of a jet it's not worth it. The crew is fed and keeps the jet running. The jet makes money.

Sedans- We've allready hit on this and you got shot down.

Quality hotels- Here is another example of how shortsighted you really are. We don't go home every night like you and see the wife or whatever. We spend half our life in a hotel room. Our union Hotel Comittee has negotiated rates, free internet and transportation that the company was just blowing money at. The Hotel Comitte asked the pilots what they want and then went to each hotel and made a deal. We had a lot of hotels changed and saved the company like 8 million dollars last year because we negotiated a rate and didn't take it up the A$$ by paying rack rate.

Good hotel rooms means safe and efficient pilots the next night the company knows this and the pilots know this. At my wife's airline they have had pilots held up and robbed at some of the crapholes they go to.

So yes from the outside you can look and say you get this and you get that but you're not on the line. Accept the fact you're not here and you can't walk a mile in my shoes.

Diesel,

This post is definately right on. Never sacrifice taking care of yourself physically, it's all you have. I get unbelievable migraines when I skip meals as well. Although we may spar it out occasionally on other topics it doesn't mean I and others don't support you on many others. I just saw a group of your guys in an FBO the other day scarfing down some boxed lunches like horses at a hitching post with feed bags strapped on. Ridiculous...

Thought I'd chime in, I'm not a total arse and wish you well.