NetJets Interview

[FAcFriend]

we know you don't care. thats why we hate you.

But I just read about an owner who was happy he was able to recover his flight on a QS tail instead of the selloff you had for him.

Lets keep things going just the way it is now....

El keep it going this way??
Get it over quick. Lose the customers....Slow down the business....ALL within the contract.

NJA Pilots win- Unemployment..

 

[El Chupacabra]

I am happy with that. Either way.

Whatever you prefer.

Unemployment. Lets do it.

I can replace this income tomorrow.

 

[loverobot]

FamillyGuy,

I suggest that the supply exceeds the demand for pilots. In south Florida pilots are paying for their jobs to fly a B1900. A flight instructor somewhere in Texas is working for free up to 60 hours a week. Flying through a thunderstorm somewhere in Michigan, a freight dog is risking his life for $10/hr. In Southern Illinois another 18 year old just declared his major in Aeronautical Science. In Washington state, a 10 year old girl is drawing a picture of a jet engine instead of paying attention during math class. In rural Kansas, a high school student has just watched the Blue Angels and now wants to be a pilot. Don't forget the thousends of military pilots who are leaving the service every year who have 15 years of flying experience.

The job carries with it a degree of romance that computer programmer, human resource consultant, or accountant does not have. Its almost like hollywood or performance professions where you get many persuing a dream they had since youth. If a union is needed to protect pilots from themselves to "artificially" inflate the price of labor to maintain a livable wage, then so be it. Anti-union rhetoric from someone out of the profession should be regarded as offensive.

 

[loverobot]

Its like all those rubber-necks for the accident on the highway....my curiousity got the best of me.

And you do have a public union website...complete with a section for the owners and employees....right? Will we see a picture of the upside down sign there?

When you look at those guys down their I belive you are jealous. Each of those guys and gals worked very hard to get to the positions they have. Some of those guys went through military flight school where only the best and brightest survived. More than a few of them holding their signs have flown F15's or Cobra Helicopters in combat. Behind those guys is a story that could be published for its heroism and integrity.

That semi-overweight guy with peppered gray hair, he is a retired 747 pilot of 30 years. He has made thousends of judgement calls that determined the survival of houndreds of people. He has refused flights into poor weather, he has added extra fuel when his dispatcher didn't agree, he has known through experience what will kill his passengers and what will not.

Whats your story?

What you see out the window are men and women who are not used to losing, not used to settling for mediocrity. They are the best and brightest in their fields. You should be ashamed of yourself for belittling their efforts.

 

[FamilyGuy]

When you look at those guys down their I belive you are jealous. Each of those guys and gals worked very hard to get to the positions they have. Some of those guys went through military flight school where only the best and brightest survived. More than a few of them holding their signs have flown F15's or Cobra Helicopters in combat. Behind those guys is a story that could be published for its heroism and integrity.

Interesting....you want me to show respect and deference to these individuals based on their backgrounds, which is something that I am willing to do.

The sad part is that our leaders, Boisture and McGhee, have that exact same background, in spades, yet all I see on this website about them is derision and ridicule.

Why arent you stepping up to the plate and defending them based on their history of serving this country?

 

[El Chupacabra]

I have a funny way of not defending evil people.

 

[FamilyGuy]

FamillyGuy,

I suggest that the supply exceeds the demand for pilots. In south Florida pilots are paying for their jobs to fly a B1900. A flight instructor somewhere in Texas is working for free up to 60 hours a week. Flying through a thunderstorm somewhere in Michigan, a freight dog is risking his life for $10/hr. In Southern Illinois another 18 year old just declared his major in Aeronautical Science. In Washington state, a 10 year old girl is drawing a picture of a jet engine instead of paying attention during math class. In rural Kansas, a high school student has just watched the Blue Angels and now wants to be a pilot. Don't forget the thousends of military pilots who are leaving the service every year who have 15 years of flying experience.

The job carries with it a degree of romance that computer programmer, human resource consultant, or accountant does not have. Its almost like hollywood or performance professions where you get many persuing a dream they had since youth. If a union is needed to protect pilots from themselves to "artificially" inflate the price of labor to maintain a livable wage, then so be it.

The problem with your position is that we are not talking about getting these pilots a livable wage. These pilots already make between $50,000 and $72,000, according to their own union officials.

Plus the company has already stated they are willing to give them a fair raise, which is almost unheard of in recent industry history...look around.

As for the romance of the position, so does a park ranger, many of whom make near poverty level wages, yet you dont see them forming unions and demanding artificially high wages. These park rangers have pursued a dream since childhood, why should we let simple economics get in the way from paying them $100k at year 5?

Anti-union rhetoric from someone out of the profession should be regarded as offensive.

Why? The other employees of this company that are having their livlihoods threatened by these unreasonable demands have every right to speak up and make their feelings known....especially on a public board that union supporters are using as a platform to unfairly malign what is a very good company.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I have a funny way of not defending evil people.

That cuts both ways, doesnt it?

The question is - how are you defining evil?

 

[El Chupacabra]

here is how... Last week My pax asked if this was a good company to work for... and I said, " Sure its a good company to work for."

 

[SquirrelDog]

Oh my goodness! You people are insane!

Let me see, graduate OSU with a 4 yr degree, go across the street to NJA get a starting job in the low 30's, maybe even move up to scheduling quick for some more money. And with fairly no experience.

Now, If a pilot could get hired with all ratings and a 4yr degree right out of college and 0.0 hrs they would start at 27,100. That's with NO experience.

Somebody please tell me why this is so hard to understand in the fact that the pilots need the money.

...oh, and add flight attendents to that first paragragh too.

Lord help the ignorance!

 

[loverobot]

Interesting....you want me to show respect and deference to these individuals based on their backgrounds, which is something that I am willing to do.

The sad part is that our leaders, Boisture and McGhee, have that exact same background, in spades, yet all I see on this website about them is derision and ridicule.

Why arent you stepping up to the plate and defending them based on their history of serving this country?

I will say it again: If the management were to find themselves as pilots they would be out there holding a sign. It's rational, its the right thing to do given the circumstances. Smart people would realize the situation and rise to the occasion.

The management knows about leverage and bargaining, just as the union does. This is a poker game, and you know it. You are playing a role, I am playing mine. It's nothing personal untill you decide to portray these union members as knuckle-dragging morons hitting the bricks for ill-concieved reasons. You crossed the line from taking an almost economics professor/text book voice to one of belittlement.

Each has their side of the table, and are doing their job playing that particular role. You are seeing a system of check and balance in action.

 

[FamilyGuy]

It's nothing personal untill you decide to portray these union members as knuckle-dragging morons hitting the bricks for ill-concieved reasons. You crossed the line from taking an almost economics professor/text book voice to one of belittlement.

When did I portray the union members as knuckle-dragging morons?

Go back and read the thread....the personal attacks, profanity, etc are coming almost exclusively from the union supporters, yet I dont see you upbraiding them for their actions.....

Its funny how many union members want to cry foul for the slightest perceived personal attack, yet they think nothing of engaging in that behavior themselves or they simply ignore these types of attacks when it comes from their side....

 

[FamilyGuy]

Let me see, graduate OSU with a 4 yr degree, go across the street to NJA get a starting job in the low 30's, maybe even move up to scheduling quick for some more money. And with fairly no experience.

Now, If a pilot could get hired with all ratings and a 4yr degree right out of college and 0.0 hrs they would start at 27,100. That's with NO experience.

Somebody please tell me why this is so hard to understand in the fact that the pilots need the money.

...oh, and add flight attendents to that first paragragh too.

Lord help the ignorance!

Squirrel - No one is saying the pilots do not deserve a raise.

If you want to bemoan ignorance on this board, then I suggest you start addressing the people that are engaging in personal attacks and using profanity to describe the company leaders.

 

[Ultra Grump]

The problem with your position is that we are not talking about getting these pilots a livable wage. These pilots already make between $50,000 and $72,000, according to their own union officials.

I can assure you that those wages are not liveable in many of our Gateways.

No one is saying the pilots do not deserve a raise.

That depends on what you consider a raise. If you take our crappy-when-signed wages and merely add COLA, that is NOT a raise. If you take our crappy-when-signed wages and add more money for more work, that is NOT a raise. If you think that this is enough, then you are in effect saying we do not deserve a raise.

 

[FAcFriend]

I can assure you that those wages are not liveable in many of our Gateways.

That depends on what you consider a raise. If you take our crappy-when-signed wages and merely add COLA, that is NOT a raise. If you take our crappy-when-signed wages and add more money for more work, that is NOT a raise. If you think that this is enough, then you are in effect saying we do not deserve a raise.

Grump, if you cant live on 50k in Boston, move. If you cant move due to family etc, then is it the Cos. responsiblity?

Also, you make OT, amazing given that new fed regulations change Ot for all other professions. Most other people making 50k year do not get OT for more hours...I bet noone in CMH making 50k a year has a chnace at OT- just a chance at more hours.

 

[CMHTroll]

I can assure you that those wages are not liveable in many of our Gateways.

That depends on what you consider a raise. If you take our crappy-when-signed wages and merely add COLA, that is NOT a raise. If you take our crappy-when-signed wages and add more money for more work, that is NOT a raise. If you think that this is enough, then you are in effect saying we do not deserve a raise.

A Raise? I thought your raises were built in. Year 2, 3, 4,... 10? The issue is with your base that does need to adjusted to meet inflation. And then by your argument we should be able to adjust your base and leave it at that.

This is a fundamental problem with a contract. When one scetion is out of balance and holds up other sections, you fall behind. Yes you need to be brought up to cover COLA. Yes you deserve a raise. But not to the levels that we have heard on this board. But somewhere in the middle is a common ground, if you choose to accept it. Call it a raise, call it COLA plus a little more. Whatever.

 

[loverobot]

Also, you make OT, amazing given that new fed regulations change Ot for all other professions. Most other people making 50k year do not get OT for more hours...I bet noone in CMH making 50k a year has a chnace at OT- just a chance at more hours.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you need a union

 

[loverobot]

When did I portray the union members as knuckle-dragging morons?

Go back and read the thread....the personal attacks, profanity, etc are coming almost exclusively from the union supporters, yet I dont see you upbraiding them for their actions.....

Its funny how many union members want to cry foul for the slightest perceived personal attack, yet they think nothing of engaging in that behavior themselves or they simply ignore these types of attacks when it comes from their side....

.."almost exclusively".. nice tap-dance.

Obviously you never said "knuckle-dragging moron," but your implications were going this way. I detected a sense of high and mighty, as you peered out your office window at the fools below. You cast them aside like a king ignoring the plea of the peasent class. They are a greedy mob, demanding more then a fair share, they will destroy the company. All expected responses during a negotiation. It seems that you portray the union crowd as the blue collar slobs as you enjoy your latte in white collar world above.

Face it dude, if you were a pilot you would be out there with the best of em'. The rules of the game are very clear, as outlined by labor law and the RLA. You might have had some special training in union negotiations if you went to graduate school, as these are required curriculum for business and law school.

I know I'm enjoying the show.

 

[FamilyGuy]

.."almost exclusively".. nice tap-dance.

No tap dance at all....I used those terms simply because there are rarely absolutes. Am I aware of company 'supporters' using profanity or personal attacks on this board? No, but since I havent read every single post, it is more appropriate to say almost exclusively.

Now, if you want to talk about tap-dancing....I noticed you tip-toed around my points and didnt even try to rebut the facts that the union supporters on this board are regularly engaging in profanity, personal attacks, belittlement...you name it. Nice double standard you have there.

Obviously you never said "knuckle-dragging moron," but your implications were going this way. I detected a sense of high and mighty, as you peered out your office window at the fools below. You cast them aside like a king ignoring the plea of the peasent class. They are a greedy mob, demanding more then a fair share, they will destroy the company. All expected responses during a negotiation. It seems that you portray the union crowd as the blue collar slobs as you enjoy your latte in white collar world above.

Exactly...I never said that phrase or anything close to it.

It's truly amazing how defensive you get when people simply point out the flaws in your arguments. I dont agree with you, I point out the errors in your logic, and all of a sudden you detect a 'sense of high and mighty'.

I'm detecting someone that doesnt have the common sense to admit they are wrong, their arguments are flawed, and they are failing to acknowledge when they are acting irrationally.

As you said earlier, this is business my friend. If you want something you need to get over your emotional self and learn to put forth sound, rational, business cases supporting your position. Temper tantrums are not effective beyond grade school.

Face it dude, if you were a pilot you would be out there with the best of em'. The rules of the game are very clear, as outlined by labor law and the RLA. You might have had some special training in union negotiations if you went to graduate school, as these are required curriculum for business and law school.

Nope...been there, done that. I've seen unions from the inside....all their dirty politics, backstabbings, thuggery, arm-twisting, etc....

I know first hand that the last thing a union wants is good labor-management relations. They need rancor and animosity to justify their existence.

I've had my fill of lowest-common denominator raises....I'm willing to stack my work ethic and productivity up against my peers and take my hard earned raises each year instead of relying on someone else to 'represent me' and in the end get me the same raise as the guy next to me that I know is only doing 2/3rds of what I do.

So no, I wouldnt be out there....If I were a pilot I'd probably be with a non-union outfit where my skills could be showcased and rewarded based on their merit

 

[DO-82 driver]

FamilyGuy sounds like someone on the company negotiation team of someone very close to it.