Netjets Hawker 4000s - How Many Before End of 2008?

[mzaharis]

Has the 4000 been certified yet? What are the potential holdups - any legit theories? It's too bad because it looks like a great airplane.

Here's the latest from AIN, in an article reporting Hawker-Beechcraft deliveries for 2007:

Conspicuously absent from the deliveries is the super-midsize Hawker 4000, which was certified in November 2006 but had to meet additional certification requirements. The airplane is now in final testing. “We expect to announce confirmed [Hawker 4000] delivery dates in the coming weeks,” a spokesman told AIN.

http://www.ainonline.com/news/singl...awker-beechcraft/?no_cache=1&cHash=d1739f6b53

Here's another article from last September that discusses the 4000.

http://www.ainonline.com/news/singl...awker-beechcraft/?no_cache=1&cHash=fbcd30723f

 

[flywest]

I thought NJE just negotiated the accelerated delivery of 4 Hawker 4000's for this year. Maybe they are taking all of NJA's?

 

[CA1900]

I thought NJE just negotiated the accelerated delivery of 4 Hawker 4000's for this year. Maybe they are taking all of NJA's?

Hey, even if they doubled their delivery rate, two times zero is still zero.

 

[Guitar Guy]

The fact that the demo aircraft is being flown to all of the airshows seems to indicate some interest on the manufacturer's part. Why even fly the demo around if people aren't serious?

The interest from the manufacturer is to finally start generating some income from a plane that's swallowed up untold millions of dollars in development cost over the course of a decade. Flying N15QS around is a sales effort on their part.

Has the 4000 been certified yet? What are the potential holdups - any legit theories? It's too bad because it looks like a great airplane.

At one point, they had problems getting known-ice certification and some other certification required for 135 ops. Not being certified for 135 ops would be a show-stopper at NetJets, among others.

When I started at Boeing in 1989, I was there for the final certification of the 737-500. When I left just about 6 years later, I had been working on the 737-600/700/800. That's 6 years between generations. So I'd bet that Raytheon was (and now Hawker-Beechcraft is) sweating a lot over trying to sell a plane that probably should be seeing an improved model at this point in its design life.

 

[mzaharis]

One of the problems of Hawker 4000 certification is that it took more than 5 years from the start of the certification to the end. My understanding is that you're only held to the standards in place at the beginning of the certification - if regs change during certification, you're "grandfathered" in. During that time, the FARS for fuel systems were tightened (I forget exactly how, but maybe it was that an inerting system is required, or greater control of ignition source). Since the 4000 took more than 5 years, Raytheon had to, in effect, "restart" certification. They had already done the legwork, and could present their data, but they were liable for the latest FARs. I think they were able to "make a deal", where they received their type cert, but they were given a deadline to comply with the stiffer fuel system regs. That's been at least of the delay on getting to market.

This is off of memory and a quick google of AIN, so I apologize in advance if my accuracy isn't perfect.

 

[mzaharis]

One of the problems of Hawker 4000 certification is that it took more than 5 years from the start of the certification to the end. My understanding is that you're only held to the standards in place at the beginning of the certification - if regs change during certification, you're "grandfathered" in. During that time, the FARS for fuel systems were tightened (I forget exactly how, but maybe it was that an inerting system is required, or greater control of ignition source). Since the 4000 took more than 5 years, Raytheon had to, in effect, "restart" certification. They had already done the legwork, and could present their data, but they were liable for the latest FARs. I think they were able to "make a deal", where they received their type cert, but they were given a deadline to comply with the stiffer fuel system regs. That's been at least of the delay on getting to market.

This is off of memory and a quick google of AIN, so I apologize in advance if my accuracy isn't perfect.

Here's some extra detail:

http://www.ainonline.com/news/singl...fication-process/?no_cache=1&cHash=7ad644df3d

 

[Fozzy]

I read that you guys are expecting your first copy on the line in April:

To bad they don't say what year. :laugh:

 

[otto feather]

Heard Raytheon is tied up in a patent infringement fight over the approach plate clip.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6166969&nseq=1

 

[DAS at 10/250]

They had better remove those single cue flight directors. If this is the same setup as the Sovereign you won't be allowed to use them. Or the preview function. Or the map on the PFD. Or the VNAV. Or the ADF with HF. Or a non-collocated DME.

But maybe Honeywell will have verison 4 out by the time these things are delivered in April. 2012.

 

[RJ Bum]

Just had recurrent in ICT for the 800 and there was 2 Horizon test pilots in there. They said April wasn't going to happen and September was a "very optimistic estimate" for our first delivery....

They did have nothing but good things to say about the airplane though.

 

[Sparse]

Just had recurrent in ICT for the 800 and there was 2 Horizon test pilots in there. They said April wasn't going to happen and September was a "very optimistic estimate" for our first delivery....

They did have nothing but good things to say about the airplane though.

Don't know a darn thing about this aircraft but it appears that is a Honeywell Epic avionics suite. If that's the case, then there lies the problem.