Netjets Gulfstreams & Globals - Coexisting?

[realityman]

I'm no expert, but as a Middle East based Global XRS Captain, I can with absolute certainty that this ain't rocket science. Any Netjet's pilot with enough seniority to hold a Global bid will have more than enough experience to make a smooth transition if they are given a good International procedures course. Yes, it's nice to see things the first time with someone who has been there and done it, but that is often not the reality of international flying.

I'm tired of hearing about QFE approaches. There is nothing to them as long as you understand the wheels hit pavement at zero and you read the Jepp plate. As for metric conversion charts, get real. All newer airframes change from feet to meters at the push of a button and most (including the current Global) have conversion pages on the FMS. Can you say no brainer... As for ETP's, I assume most of the guys will be coming out of CX's, F2000's and Hawkers. If you can properly plan a Hawaii crossing, the North Atlantic is a breeze. Especially in an airplane with a 6150nm range.

Clearly, this issue is about who gets to fly the new long range fleet type. It's a difficult issue, and without question, one side is going to be unhappy with the way the pilots are selected. I just hope the argument stays focused on the real issue, and no one tries to pull a safety card to enhance their position.

VERY well said Xrated!! You expressed it EXACTLY as it is. The only stumbling block in there is the part about a good int'l training program. I heard NJI used to have a very fine program, but with the integration, it's not so good anymore (sorry to all you union-haters, but that was most DEFINITELY a company decision to reduce, or eliminate, the training).
Still, I've done plenty of int'l (over the NAT) in the X to know that while it is more work, it's not rocket science.
There are plenty of places I haven't been, but there are lots of operators out there who are doing it without having had NJI's int'l training, so I'm pretty sure most of us could handle it.

As for who gets to fly the new long range fleet, it's actually not difficult. Basically, we simply abide by what the company decides to do. If they want to put displaced pilots from other fleets in them, it's permissible to do so in the CBA. Or, if they want to put them out to open bid for everyone in the company, that too is permissible. The only thing they can't do is offer those spots to any select group of pilots (say, GV pilots if that fleet isn't in disposal). The different ways of putting pilots in the new fleet may not make everyone happy (myself included), but it's not difficult. The methods have already been determined.

 

[realityman]

At a guess, two Beechjet F/O's, two Excel Captains, an Excel F/O and a partidge in a pear tree. The Hawker Captain probably has a little.

You're kidding, right?

You'd be surprised at the amount of int'l experience we have flying in the "little" jets. Heck, I just got off tour with a guy who flew in Vietnam! Great pilot! I've talked to F/O's in the Hawker 400's who have flown almost nothing but int'l in their previous lives.

Sheesh! Get over it. It's an airplane. It flies the same no matter what airspace you're in. As for everything else, there are lots and lots of resources (including right in the first Jepps volume) to help you with everything else. Maybe we'll need a little training to fly a QFE approach (if we haven't done one before), but that's all it'll take.

As for needing to crack the books, I agree!! But that still doesn't mean you need to be super-duper quantum special to fly a long range plane to other countries. I'm sure most of us can handle it without needing to sit right seat to you "big jet" drivers for 6 years.

 

[OPECJet]

Those big jets are all RJ sized anyway....

 

[BentOver]

Those big jets are all RJ sized anyway....

bingo!

 

[X-rated]

Those big jets are all RJ sized anyway....

CRJ-200:
87ft 10in x 69ft 7in x 20ft 5in
MGTW 53,000 lbs

Global XRS:
99ft 5in X 96ft x 25ft 6in
MGTW 99,500 lbs.

Typical BOW on the XRS is about 52,000lbs

 

[BentOver]

What's the dimensions compared to a CRJ700?

Either way I'm pretty sure that most if not all guys at NJA could handle a MD-80 or 737 at the very least without more than a few hours of training.

 

[miles otoole]

What's the dimensions compared to a CRJ700?

Either way I'm pretty sure that most if not all guys at NJA could handle a MD-80 or 737 at the very least without more than a few hours of training.

However, a DC-9 at 120K is a completely different animal. How many all glass pilots could handle an aircraft with no altitude capture and round dials? They would be lost.

 

[BentOver]

However, a DC-9 at 120K is a completely different animal. How many all glass pilots could handle an aircraft with no altitude capture and round dials? They would be lost.

I'm pretty positive any pilot at NJA or any other airline could fly any plane with the normal amount of training. To say that "it takes a special breed to fly a DC-9 or Global" is absurd... How does a piston pilot go straight to a jet, or a CRJ/Global pilot go to a 747...You get trained for the a/c and its nuances(sp?)..

A 747 international Captain is no different skill wise to a NJA Ultra FO. (with the exception of having the experience in aircraft and conditions). And any pilot from the Ultra guy up to the 747 guy can learn a new a/c with normal training. Guarantee that Ultra SIC can outfly that 747 guy in an Ultra...



Any pilot who thinks they are better because they fly a certain piece of equipment is full of it..They just happen to be at the right place at the right time, and got hired into a certain piece of equipment...period.

To answer your question..... I'd do it the same way I hand flew a 1900 for two years. Push the nose over and level off, reduce power for cruise.....Or with an auto pilot I'd do it the way I was trained in class. Or however that particular autopilt works

Tune in the VOR and follow the course, pretty sure most learned that somewhere during their instrument training. Thats how I'd handle round dials....Wait kinda like I'm doing now after furlough from NJA.....Guess I can really fly round dials:beer:

 

[imacdog]

However, a DC-9 at 120K is a completely different animal. How many all glass pilots could handle an aircraft with no altitude capture and round dials? They would be lost.

It's just a plane, 'fer Chrissake's'. What one pilot can do, another can do.

 

[imacdog]

CRJ-200:
87ft 10in x 69ft 7in x 20ft 5in
MGTW 53,000 lbs

Global XRS:
99ft 5in X 96ft x 25ft 6in
MGTW 99,500 lbs.

Typical BOW on the XRS is about 52,000lbs

Okey dokey then. There are 1500hr kids hopping into EMB-170s and CRJ-900s. BFD.