NetJets China Set To Start Ops in Early 2014

[BentOver]

This might be better on a new thread, but I was wondering what the general belief is about how many furloughees would come back if they were recalled.

More than a few, less than all...... Same with every other aviation company who has furloughed. Those who found better jobs will not return, those who didn't probably will.

 

[imacdog]

If recalls came tomorrow then I would bet a pretty good percentage would come back. 4-5 years down the road after the major airlines have ramped up hiring I'm sure the number would be quite a bit less.

 

[jtf]

My guess is that there is a giant sellout of the furloughed pilots. I heard that it is something the negotiating comittee will probably use as a chip to improve things for those still on property. I heard this directly from a negotiator and also directly from one of those on the eboard. I asked both to at least poll the pilot group on their willingness to stab our brothers in the back and both agreed that was a good idea, but I'm not betting on seeing it polled. I absolutely told them both it is a concession to destroy the furloughed pilots rights since they were bought with previous negotiating capital just like our current no paying for insurance, but both guys tried to justify it by saying none of the major airlines have furlough longevity. I told them it doesn't matter that they dont since they didn't negotiate for it before. It is a concession and I'm ashamed that this pilot group will probably accept out. I came to this job partly because I thought the union here was tough and would stand up for better and better contracts and no concessions and now I am very worried.

 

[gutshotdraw]

If recalls came tomorrow then I would bet a pretty good percentage would come back. 4-5 years down the road after the major airlines have ramped up hiring I'm sure the number would be quite a bit less.

No way either of us can prove it since recalls AIN'T happening for a while, but my guess is south of 35% if notices went out tomorrow.

Why come back to a 10-12 year upgrade horizon (minimum), a looming contract fight and potential work stoppage, and a fractured and polarized pilot group when there are good jobs to be had in corporate and major/national airline flying?

 

[VGerect]

Why come back to a 10-12 year upgrade horizon (minimum), a looming contract fight and potential work stoppage, and a fractured and polarized pilot group when there are good jobs to be had in corporate and major/national airline flying?

I think you might be talking about the small group of NJI pilots who were furloughed with G-IV types and International experience.

The majority of the NJA furloughed guys have not landed any of these "good jobs in corporate and major/national airline flying" that you refer to.

-Type ratings and time in small or mid-size corporate jets where there has been little or no hiring except for bottom feeder 135 ops. (TMC for one)
-Guys who came over to NJA from the regionals prior to getting the magic 1,000 hours of TPIC.
-Guys that don't have a 4 year degree needed for the majors.
-Guys who came over to NJA after retiring from the military or a major airline and are now around 60. Good luck getting hired at that age.
-The everlasting stink on our resume' from having worked at netjets. (Oh your furloughed from netjets? no thanks- we don't need you.)

There have been several guys that got on with JetBlue, good for them but it's not for everyone.

 

[gunfyter]

No way either of us can prove it since recalls AIN'T happening for a while, but my guess is south of 35% if notices went out tomorrow.

Are we past believing more furloughs would happen? No longer 300 overstock?

I haven't been to CMH in 6 months not sure what the latest FUD is

 

[OPECJet]

My guess is that there is a giant sellout of the furloughed pilots. I heard that it is something the negotiating comittee will probably use as a chip to improve things for those still on property. I heard this directly from a negotiator and also directly from one of those on the eboard. I asked both to at least poll the pilot group on their willingness to stab our brothers in the back and both agreed that was a good idea, but I'm not betting on seeing it polled. I absolutely told them both it is a concession to destroy the furloughed pilots rights since they were bought with previous negotiating capital just like our current no paying for insurance, but both guys tried to justify it by saying none of the major airlines have furlough longevity. I told them it doesn't matter that they dont since they didn't negotiate for it before. It is a concession and I'm ashamed that this pilot group will probably accept out. I came to this job partly because I thought the union here was tough and would stand up for better and better contracts and no concessions and now I am very worried.

I've heard the opposite from eboard members (I believe your version is closer to the truth, however). There's little justification in it. Delta for one has unlimited recall rights I believe.

No way either of us can prove it since recalls AIN'T happening for a while, but my guess is south of 35% if notices went out tomorrow.

Why come back to a 10-12 year upgrade horizon (minimum), a looming contract fight and potential work stoppage, and a fractured and polarized pilot group when there are good jobs to be had in corporate and major/national airline flying?

I think it'd be north of 70% at the moment. Many of us are barely treading water, out of aviation, etc. It's been no picnic. I can tell you that if I was offered a recall I'd be getting a 5 figure payraise from what I'm making now even without working the 18 day schedule. I need it, and I need it to be in tact when the company finally gets around to it.

We have guys at a few corporate departments, making less than they were at NJA and working more. Coming from a standardized flying world it's probably not a lot of fun. We have a few at Jetblue, Atlas, Kallitta, Hawaian, Republic, ASA, Air Wiskey, TMC and plenty flying around Afghanistan. A few more doing the ex-pat thing. Then we have guys who have become police officers, quality management analysts, and plumbers (among other things I imagine). The common theme is that few of these companies offer long term career possibilities. The pay is too low, the schedules are crap or advancement is non-existant.

I think you might be talking about the small group of NJI pilots who were furloughed with G-IV types and International experience.

The majority of the NJA furloughed guys have not landed any of these "good jobs in corporate and major/national airline flying" that you refer to.

-Type ratings and time in small or mid-size corporate jets where there has been little or no hiring except for bottom feeder 135 ops. (TMC for one)
-Guys who came over to NJA from the regionals prior to getting the magic 1,000 hours of TPIC.
-Guys that don't have a 4 year degree needed for the majors.
-Guys who came over to NJA after retiring from the military or a major airline and are now around 60. Good luck getting hired at that age.
-The everlasting stink on our resume' from having worked at netjets. (Oh your furloughed from netjets? no thanks- we don't need you.)
There have been several guys that got on with JetBlue, good for them but it's not for everyone.

Well said. Most of us probably aren't starving, but we're back to eating ramen rather than an occasional steak. Keep our recall rights in tact, and if the NC tries to sell us out, please burn them at the stake. Period.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Are we past believing more furloughs would happen? No longer 300 overstock?

I haven't been to CMH in 6 months not sure what the latest FUD is

I never gave the additional furlough threat much credit a year ago and even less so now. Daily flight demand is climbing, Phenom sales are off the charts, and Global sales appear to be ahead of plan.

The primary FUD these days is that "XO Jet is 35% cheaper than us" and that charter is killing us. Utter crap and "expectation management" but time is NOT on the company's side these days.

Since openers are due this month, we should know soon whether the company is unrealistic or downright delusional.

 

[gunfyter]

Only if the union allows us to know. Under Weak Union the PoSTA was a complete surprise and shock to a lot of us. Shock and awe I guess.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Opec and V are correct that I am not as well informed on the fate of the furloughs from the other fleets as I am on the nearly 60 from NJI. I wish they had greater access to interact with the active pilot group so we could have a better feel for where they are at and pass along job information. I'll admit that my 35% prediction is nothing more than a gut-feel, W A G.

In the meantime, I'm hopeful the current furlough language remains intact for those that want to return.