NetJets Burning

[Some guy]

Disptcher failed to mention a comparison between proposed scale and that in use at NJI today....

Who cares?

You don't work for NJI. You don't fly the same equipment. Your jobs are similar, however, you don't have to stay in your airplane (sit in that seat) for up to 14 hours at a time. You also don't have to routinely go to those countries where the company has to hire security in order to protect you from the savages that would do anything they could to harm or kidnap you. You don't handle as many passengers at a time.
I have no idea on the numbers, but I would almost bet my next paycheck that the average total time for the NJI pilots vs the NJA pilots is significantly higher.

Apples and oranges buddy...

Dispatcher, you also failed to mention the comparison between the proposed scale and that of NASA astronauts.

Oh...Almost forgot to mention that NJI does not have a union. And from I have seen, most non-union pilots seem to make more money than union pilots. Coincidence?

Some guy

 

[Some guy]

flyjetspeed posted:
I asked them how often they flew on NJA planes and they gave me the hundred yard stare...

Husband speaks up and says, well we're with Netjets, they send us any plane we want.

I tightened him up on the breakdown. He understood he owned a Gulfstream share, but was totally out of the loop on the breakdown of the companies.
__________________

The owner paid his money and the aircraft he requested showed up to his gate.
Do you really think he cares? He knows the pilots are trained and the aircraft are maintained. He may not have understood the breakdown of things and may have been surprised, but I'll bet that by the time the door closed he was giving it no further thought.

Some Guy

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Why should the Gwhiz guys of the same company have a different scale, when I fly internationally as well and I'm not talking about canada and mexico I'm talking everywhere to include long over water trips?

1. Same Corporation; different companies.



2. You fly everywhere? I did a 10.4 block hour trip from NY to Sao Paulo, Brazil last week (with a fuel stop in Barbados). Funny thing was, after flying the entire night (left TEB at 8pm) and landing when the sun came up, I taxied up to ramp and didn’t see any NJA beechjets, hawkers, Citations, nothing.

Of course I did get a wonderful 2 hour ride in an armored car to the hotel. And of course we couldn’t leave the hotel for 2 days because of security. My point is although NJA Falcons do have the ability to travel worldwide, only the BBJ really does on a constant basis (and we all know they aren’t complaining about their pay). Your implication that all NJA pilots fly the same type of routes and trips that NJI pilots fly in the Gulfstreams, thereby deserving the same pay is absurd.

 

[squonk]

Someguy:

I'll bet that by the time the door closed he was giving it no further thought.

No argument there. Was just pointing out that we ARE the same company.

See you on line in a few months big guy!

 

[semperfido]

Why should the Gwhiz guys of the same company have a different scale

....because they cut a different deal when their company was formed and they aren't union....DUH!!

 

[flyjetspeed]

The owner paid his money and the aircraft he requested showed up to his gate.
Do you really think he cares? He knows the pilots are trained and the aircraft are maintained. He may not have understood the breakdown of things and may have been surprised, but I'll bet that by the time the door closed he was giving it no further thought.

Some Guy

EXACTLY!!!!! Our owners do not give a sh!t what crew/airplane transports them or if they are NJA/NJI/NJE/NJME/NJE or any other future NJ whatever. That is the entire point. Get it? We are a service company. Period. We do not own the airplanes, we do not own the FBO's, we do not pay for the fuel, we only provide SERVICE. SERVICE. SERVICE.!!! End of story! You know who makes the most impact on the service at NJI???? The Effing Flight Attendant!!!! Yup She/He makes the biggest impression of all. We can fly the most flawless, perfect, absolutely amazing performance of a cockpit crew you have ever seen and it is NOTHING!!!! If the Owner is unhappy with the "experience" it was all for NOTHING!!!! The whole thing revolves around the owners. I am sick of people thinking that this company is here just so pilots can fly around in jet airplanes. BS BS BS. Focus on the (god I hate this too) "BIG PICTURE" and we will get the pay/sched/bennies/etc. etc. only if we provide the owner with what he wants. If we don't CS, FO, etc WILL. Oh the h3ll with it I'm gonna have a double glass of Glenlivet and go to bed. Ciao
G

 

[semperfido]

EXACTLY!!!!! Our owners do not give a sh!t G

how true...they could care less about the pilot pay/HR issues.

 

[FLYLOW22]

how true...they could care less about the pilot pay issues.

Shut this pig down.

 

[dsptchrnja]

I REALLY wish you could hear what Bill Boisture says to our union leaders vs what he and NetJets is putting out. He has said many times that NetJets will fail and everyone will be gone unless xyz happens. Now do you honestly think they are going to send out ANY communication that says "hey NetJets employee things are not going well and YOU yes you mr dispatcher, owner services rep, travel dep agent ETC might be out of a job" ah NO!!! Ever hear of someone playing both sides?

I have many friends that work on the floor in Columbus. Whats sad to me is the total disrespect for you and the lies about whats really going on.

Yes the pay offer was that bad. In fact some pilots would under the current proposal take a pay cut vs our current 4 year old CBA. Would you vote for a pay cut? There is so much more to this stroy that I just cant talk about. Seek out a fellow pilot and find out whats really going on. The truth may just shock you.

Here's the difference - the promises made by the company that I referred to are in writing several times over - that means they will be held accountable for what they say. The suppossed "promises" I hear about on this board about what RTS or BB says are all rumor as far as I can tell - until I see it in writing it means nothing - especially coming from folk with personal agendas and bad attitudes.

Regardless, at the moment, the company's actions are speaking even louder than their words. I have seen some significant long term investments at least in the operations side at Bridgeway recently which speaks volumes about their commitement to certain long term goals. If there was any fear the company was losing ground or afraid of going out of business you wouldn't know it by the progress being made.

If there was any disrespect the way you imply above I would know about it.

Since I have only seen the company's "highlights" of their proposal contrasted with the "insulting" remarks made by "pilots" on this board I can't make an objective opinion on the last offer other than to say I am certain I don't get the whole story from either side. Neither are objective, or remotely exhaustive. The union has their spin, the company has their's - what else does anyone expect at this point?

Since the union won't publicize any of their proposals, and looking at the company's books don't seem that important to them - what are we supposed to believe exactly?

A statement was made today that said part of the unions proposal includes a $200,000 signing bonus for each pilot. Without the typical spin, perhaps you can at least confirm or deny this and explain how the union justifies it. Does your union leadership share Diesel's attitude that they don't give a rip how much money the company makes - " 'this' is how much we cost so just pay up?"

 

[semperfido]

Shut this pig down.

gotta call em the way i see em. it is boring over on the Corp board tonight. oink oink

 

[squonk]

flyjetspeed:

EXACTLY!!!!! Our owners do not give a sh!t what crew/airplane transports them or if they are NJA/NJI/NJE/NJME/NJE or any other future NJ whatever. That is the entire point. Get it?

I got it my man! You proved my point exactly. They don't care as long as you get them to Pigs Knuckle, AR.

WE ARE NJA/NJI/NJE/EIEIO........

Can't wait to meet you boys in recurrent! First rounds on me.

 

[gordon24]

What I want to know is all you fukcers that say STFD, where you gonna go? Tell me, what job are you gonna "take"? You have something lined up already? I read the same ol' guys posting the same ol' sh#t on union site. They are probably the ones posting the same ol' sh#t on this site. STFD, let 'er burn, kiss my azz, yada yada yada. For the 10 guys that post that stuff on the union site, I ask again, after you STFD, where you gonna go? You got a guaranteed job some where? If not, I'm tired of hearing your sh#t. Let's work on a fair contract for both sides.

 

[x402]

Let's work on a fair contract for both sides

What makes you think the company has any intent on offering a fair contract. They haven't yet unless you think 60k at 5 yrs is enough. Please, let us in on your thinking, nothing I've seen would suggest that happening.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Fair Contract???

Let's see....

The company currently pays $111,300,000 in pilot salaries this year.

In the last 5 years the most profit ever made by NJA ONLY (pre tax) was $35,000,000.

The union is asking for $221,500,000 in pilot salaries (BBJ excluded).

AND..

$270,000,000 million dollars in signing bonuses (assuming 1350 pilots)


Don't talk about fair unless you can justify this financial suicide.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Let's work on a fair contract for both sides.

I'm not one of the "STFD" crowd. However, I have to agree that the company is being very disingenuous in their dealings with us, and the offer on the table is, to use a word that seems to rile the moles, insulting. I am not itching to STFD, but if the company will not get serious in negotiations, then I am prepared for whatever results.

I like NetJets. Overall, it's a pretty good company to work for. The pay sucks. I'd be happy to keep the current contract and LOAs (if the company would only abide by them) with the necessary substantial increase in pay.

 

[Ultra Grump]

The union is asking for $221,500,000 in pilot salaries (BBJ excluded).

AND..

$270,000,000 million dollars in signing bonuses (assuming 1350 pilots)

Just curious where you pulled these figures out of...

 

[Diesel]

you want to talk financial suicide?

my favorite part of the whole deal that the union negotiators were told there is no money to pay the pilots but there is money to fight, charter and sell off for as long as it takes to make the pilots buckle.

It would cost the company a lot more to charter, sell off, and fight than it would to just pay the pilots what the union is asking.

So who is now committing financial suicide.

note: spelling sucks wifes laptop doesn't have spellcheck

 

[dsptchrnja]

$221,500,000: information made public by correspondence on 5/12/05, reconfirmed yesterday.

$200,000 signing bonus: information made public yesterday.

 

[dsptchrnja]

you want to talk financial suicide?

my favorite part of the whole deal that the union negotiators were told there is no money to pay the pilots but there is money to fight, charter and sell off for as long as it takes to make the pilots buckle.

It would cost the company a lot more to charter, sell off, and fight than it would to just pay the pilots what the union is asking.

So who is now committing financial suicide.

Untrue: the company has proven that sell-offs are an acceptable practice that fits within the structure of the business model. They are quite necessary, financially, and contractually. Certainly that is not to say high sell-off days and periods like we have seen during high-demand times don't hurt - they do. But we often lag behind the ability to meet demand with current resources. This has been clyclical for the entire company's history.

 

[squonk]

$221,500,000: information made public by correspondence on 5/12/05, reconfirmed yesterday.

$200,000 signing bonus: information made public yesterday.

Correspondence???????????????????

Made public by WHOM???????????

Link?

 

[squonk]

disptcher::

the company has proven that sell-offs are an acceptable practice that fits within the structure of the business model

Especially when that sell off goes to EJM. I have to give them credit. It is an ingenious business model.

Rob peter to pay paul.

 

[Diesel]

No i'm not talking a small percentage of sell off's. I'm talking selling off 100 percent of the buisness. That's what the company was saying. They have the money to run the buisness with 100 percent selloff but they don't have the money to pay us a respectable wage.

I feel sorry for you. You only get one side of the story. Although you do come on here to find out some sliver of the other half of the story. Good for you.

We see both sides of the story. We know what are union is asking we know what the company is trying to force on us.

 

[ghostrider64]

So it appears that those Gwhiz gentlemen are against us why? Becasue we are a threat to you? I don't think we are. We do work for the same company. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out when I break and the GIV parked next to me takes the trip and pax...

Here is my point

The company chose to compare their offer to other fractionals and ASA! But failed to compare them to other salaries they pay!!! That smells like bad apples and oranges to me...If you would care to, please post your salary so we can see just where we all are...That way the guess work goes out the window...

As for not going to the same places I beg to differ with you big boyz...We do south america, europe, Hawaii on a farily regular basis in the 2000 and the X. I've also had the pleasure of spending a few nights in places like Bogota...I would love to have your payscale and I deserve no less based on my rides with drivers that are packing...

So don't fear us. Step up, show your cards and let us make informed decisions. Another question is why are you so defensive about what we are doing?

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Ever notice how MUCH NJADISPATCHJACKOFF knows ? More than your average "dispatcher ?" No Sh*t ! This should give some of you arguing a CLUE as to WHO you are arguing with ! He is just "hired help," opening his toilet mouth and letting the company diahrea flow. Amazing how he knows the $$$ amounts down to the penny. Best to ignore, unless you like dueling with company hacks for sport.

 

[squonk]

ghostrider64:

So don't fear us. Step up, show your cards and let us make informed decisions. Another question is why are you so defensive about what we are doing?

They are defensive because they have absolutely NO say in this matter.

They also know exactly what we want out of this. It has to be hard (no matter how much they blow it off on here) sitting on the bench and watching your career being used like a poker chip by a management, that if they are paying attention, have seen that has no qualms about lying and breaking promises.

I wish no ill will for our G-wiz cousins. I just want to know, do you really trust RTS to do the right thing? Why would he keep his promise to NJI when he has proved otherwise for NJA on many occasions?

 

[squonk]

Best to ignore, unless you like dueling with company hacks for sport.

It does get addicting!

 

[You're right]

As for not going to the same places I beg to differ with you big boyz...We do south america, europe, Hawaii on a farily regular basis in the 2000 and the X. I've also had the pleasure of spending a few nights in places like Bogota...I would love to have your payscale and I deserve no less based on my rides with drivers that are packing...

So don't fear us. Step up, show your cards and let us make informed decisions. Another question is why are you so defensive about what we are doing?

Ghostrider64-- Just curious, maybe off topic, maybe not. When's the last time you were in South America? Asia? Africa? How about this "overnight" in Bogota you had? (Which BTW, I would venture a weeks pay did not happen)

Don't compare the "Global" knowledge of the G-Pilots to the NJA-Union pilots. You will lose that discussion all day long.

 

[Hogprint]

You're right posted:

Don't compare the "Global" knowledge of the G-Pilots to the NJA-Union pilots. You will lose that discussion all day long.

Does that "Global knowledge" not seep down to us lowly NJA-union pilots that had this experience before we flew for NJA?

Last time I checked we have plenty of retired airline and military folks that if I'm correct just might have flown a time or two "Globally".

 

[FamilyGuy]

disptcher::

Especially when that sell off goes to EJM. I have to give them credit. It is an ingenious business model.

Rob peter to pay paul.

squonk - it sounds like you are falling for the misconception that EJM makes a ton of money on sold off trips. This simply isnt true, as I pointed out over a month ago in this post:

As for the sell-offs to EJM....be careful that you dont make the mistake of assuming that the dollars for the sell-off go to EJM. EJM doesnt own the aircraft - other people do and have EJM manage the aircraft for them. When NetJets sells off to EJM it still has to pay a competitive rate to the aircraft owners for the use of the aircraft. If they didnt pay a competitive rate the owners would choose someone other than EJM to manage the aircraft. So those dollars do not go to EJM - they go to the aircraft owners, which does reduce the overall profitability of NetJets....

 

[You're right]

You're right posted:


Last time I checked we have plenty of retired airline ......folks .

Hogprint, at long last, we agree on the above.

However, I will ask the same question of you. "When's the last time you were in South America? Asia? Africa?" I respect whatever previous experience you brought to the table, but seriously, on the question above, with NetJets--when? where?