NetJets Burning

[Hogprint]

disptcher posted:

I would rather you guys just stick around and accept the industry leading pay proposal on the table and get to work on the next contract.

I bet you do! That is your job though, right? Keep banging the drum.

 

[ghostrider64]

Disptcher failed to mention a comparison between proposed scale and that in use at NJI today....

Until he does I ask him politely to stand aside and let those directly involved to continue discussion...

 

[flyjetspeed]

Disptcher failed to mention a comparison between proposed scale and that in use at NJI today....

Please clarify what you mean by "a comparison"

 

[ghostrider64]

Flyjet speed...The company in their email blast to every NJA employee(propaganda) showed how their offer was X% more than various other companies salaries..

Unfortunately they didnt show a comparison to other Berksire hathaway companies IE NJI, EJM and NJE...Of course when that info is released I hope they compare them based on how many days you work a year...But don't hold your breath. they wont be releasing that comparison EVER because how would it look...X% LESS THAN NJI, NJE and EJM...

 

[JPB]

The audacity and desperateness of your quotes just continue to impress.

The company has re-stated it's position that non-bargaining employees will have work to do and no lay-offs would be anticipated. If you decided to STFD you will be closing them only on yourselves. I would rather you guys just stick around and accept the industry leading pay proposal on the table and get to work on the next contract.

It could be worse...

2 major carriers filing bankrupty in one day... if your dreams are dashed by the company not doubling your pay, imagine what it might be like to be like these guys who are facing pay cuts and loss of pensions - that's if they keep their jobs. Grass isn't looking so green any more. Nobody wants it that way - just harsh reality.

Best of luck to you as well, sincerely.

Dude; do you spend every night at home? Are you a pilot. Do you know what it takes to be one?
The Delta and NW guys are 1000 times better off that with the pathetic NJA organisation.
I suggest you find yourself a site for whatever you do (play with computer, yourself,...)

 

[flyjetspeed]

Flyjet speed...The company in their email blast to every NJA employee(propaganda) showed how their offer was X% more than various other companies salaries..

Unfortunately they didnt show a comparison to other Berksire hathaway companies IE NJI, EJM and NJE...Of course when that info is released I hope they compare them based on how many days you work a year...But don't hold your breath. they wont be releasing that comparison EVER because how would it look...X% LESS THAN NJI, NJE and EJM...

Obviously I do not have access to the E'mail(s) you are refering to. It does seem to me that trying to compare Citation Ultra/Beech 400 pay to GIV/V pay is a lost cause. The owners pay different rates for their shares, why does the company have to pay the same rate for each pilot? This has never made any sense to me. Even within NJA the BBJ folks get a different pay scale, appropriate (I assume) to what the BBJ can earn. Don't get me wromg here I believe you guys should get a better paycheck than you do. Just saying that, in a free market, a Falcon 2000 Pilot is worth X and a BeechJet pilot is worth X minus while a GV pilot is worth X plus. Additionally any attempt to compare NBAA salaries to Frax salaries is also doomed to fail. We both know (at least I certainly do) that this job is nowhere near as large a demand on our time as the average Pt 91 Corporate Job is. From personal experience I would say this job is about 60-70% as demanding on my time as my previous job. Maybe less.

 

[ghostrider64]

Well the current proposal doesn't differ by fleet. So a Falcon guy will make the same as a 400XP guy...The only fleet that is different is the BBJ...As I said they did not compare us with "any" other of our own companies. Now I would ask several things.

Why should the Gwhiz guys of the same company have a different scale, when I fly internationally as well and I'm not talking about canada and mexico I'm talking everywhere to include long over water trips?

Why would they not compare us to Europe when they fly the same aircraft and are paid differently for every type they fly and they have stricter work rules?

Why on earth would they compare us to what ASA makes? This one really threw me....

 

[squonk]

flyjetspeed posted:

The owners pay different rates for their shares, why does the company have to pay the same rate for each pilot?

We picked up a G-IV owner the other day. I was talking to the wife and she was telling me they were long time owners.

I asked them how often they flew on NJA planes and they gave me the hundred yard stare...

Husband speaks up and says, well we're with Netjets, they send us any plane we want.

I tightened him up on the breakdown. He understood he owned a Gulfstream share, but was totally out of the loop on the breakdown of the companies.

70% as demanding on my time From personal experience I would say this job is about 60-as my previous job. Maybe less.

This may be true of NJI, but believe me, from personal experience, this is not true of NJA.
__________________

 

[JustInfo]

All it is...

The "matrix" BS is just another way of disguising pay by weight. They are making the assumption more senior guys will be in the bigger planes etc. What if I don't want the bigger planes? Then I guess I can still get onto the higher pay scale in 30 years or so. Not real happy the matrizx was even given a thought let alone suggested by the union. They can keep their generous 4 percent raise I would be looking at for my "percentile" category.

 

[Mach92]

The audacity and desperateness of your quotes just continue to impress.

The company has re-stated it's position that non-bargaining employees will have work to do and no lay-offs would be anticipated.


I REALLY wish you could hear what Bill Boisture says to our union leaders vs what he and NetJets is putting out. He has said many times that NetJets will fail and everyone will be gone unless xyz happens. Now do you honestly think they are going to send out ANY communication that says "hey NetJets employee things are not going well and YOU yes you mr dispatcher, owner services rep, travel dep agent ETC might be out of a job" ah NO!!! Ever hear of someone playing both sides?

Bill Boisture is doing just that. While they send out stuff via the crew ops web no layoff's. The on going joke to us pilots is remember when the US invaded IRAQ? Remember there information officer standing in Bagdad saying "there is no invasion and we are in control all is well" when in fact US forces were on the edge of town. Hello welcome to Bob Ubanks AKA Bridgeway Bob. NetJets is so full of themselves its funny.

I have many friends that work on the floor in Columbus. Whats sad to me is the total disrespect for you and the lies about whats really going on.

Yes the pay offer was that bad. In fact some pilots would under the current proposal take a pay cut vs our current 4 year old CBA. Would you vote for a pay cut? There is so much more to this stroy that I just cant talk about. Seek out a fellow pilot and find out whats really going on. The truth may just shock you.

 

[Some guy]

Disptcher failed to mention a comparison between proposed scale and that in use at NJI today....

Who cares?

You don't work for NJI. You don't fly the same equipment. Your jobs are similar, however, you don't have to stay in your airplane (sit in that seat) for up to 14 hours at a time. You also don't have to routinely go to those countries where the company has to hire security in order to protect you from the savages that would do anything they could to harm or kidnap you. You don't handle as many passengers at a time.
I have no idea on the numbers, but I would almost bet my next paycheck that the average total time for the NJI pilots vs the NJA pilots is significantly higher.

Apples and oranges buddy...

Dispatcher, you also failed to mention the comparison between the proposed scale and that of NASA astronauts.

Oh...Almost forgot to mention that NJI does not have a union. And from I have seen, most non-union pilots seem to make more money than union pilots. Coincidence?

Some guy

 

[Some guy]

flyjetspeed posted:
I asked them how often they flew on NJA planes and they gave me the hundred yard stare...

Husband speaks up and says, well we're with Netjets, they send us any plane we want.

I tightened him up on the breakdown. He understood he owned a Gulfstream share, but was totally out of the loop on the breakdown of the companies.
__________________

The owner paid his money and the aircraft he requested showed up to his gate.
Do you really think he cares? He knows the pilots are trained and the aircraft are maintained. He may not have understood the breakdown of things and may have been surprised, but I'll bet that by the time the door closed he was giving it no further thought.

Some Guy

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Why should the Gwhiz guys of the same company have a different scale, when I fly internationally as well and I'm not talking about canada and mexico I'm talking everywhere to include long over water trips?

1. Same Corporation; different companies.



2. You fly everywhere? I did a 10.4 block hour trip from NY to Sao Paulo, Brazil last week (with a fuel stop in Barbados). Funny thing was, after flying the entire night (left TEB at 8pm) and landing when the sun came up, I taxied up to ramp and didn’t see any NJA beechjets, hawkers, Citations, nothing.

Of course I did get a wonderful 2 hour ride in an armored car to the hotel. And of course we couldn’t leave the hotel for 2 days because of security. My point is although NJA Falcons do have the ability to travel worldwide, only the BBJ really does on a constant basis (and we all know they aren’t complaining about their pay). Your implication that all NJA pilots fly the same type of routes and trips that NJI pilots fly in the Gulfstreams, thereby deserving the same pay is absurd.

 

[squonk]

Someguy:

I'll bet that by the time the door closed he was giving it no further thought.

No argument there. Was just pointing out that we ARE the same company.

See you on line in a few months big guy!

 

[semperfido]

Why should the Gwhiz guys of the same company have a different scale

....because they cut a different deal when their company was formed and they aren't union....DUH!!

 

[flyjetspeed]

The owner paid his money and the aircraft he requested showed up to his gate.
Do you really think he cares? He knows the pilots are trained and the aircraft are maintained. He may not have understood the breakdown of things and may have been surprised, but I'll bet that by the time the door closed he was giving it no further thought.

Some Guy

EXACTLY!!!!! Our owners do not give a sh!t what crew/airplane transports them or if they are NJA/NJI/NJE/NJME/NJE or any other future NJ whatever. That is the entire point. Get it? We are a service company. Period. We do not own the airplanes, we do not own the FBO's, we do not pay for the fuel, we only provide SERVICE. SERVICE. SERVICE.!!! End of story! You know who makes the most impact on the service at NJI???? The Effing Flight Attendant!!!! Yup She/He makes the biggest impression of all. We can fly the most flawless, perfect, absolutely amazing performance of a cockpit crew you have ever seen and it is NOTHING!!!! If the Owner is unhappy with the "experience" it was all for NOTHING!!!! The whole thing revolves around the owners. I am sick of people thinking that this company is here just so pilots can fly around in jet airplanes. BS BS BS. Focus on the (god I hate this too) "BIG PICTURE" and we will get the pay/sched/bennies/etc. etc. only if we provide the owner with what he wants. If we don't CS, FO, etc WILL. Oh the h3ll with it I'm gonna have a double glass of Glenlivet and go to bed. Ciao
G

 

[semperfido]

EXACTLY!!!!! Our owners do not give a sh!t G

how true...they could care less about the pilot pay/HR issues.

 

[FLYLOW22]

how true...they could care less about the pilot pay issues.

Shut this pig down.

 

[dsptchrnja]

I REALLY wish you could hear what Bill Boisture says to our union leaders vs what he and NetJets is putting out. He has said many times that NetJets will fail and everyone will be gone unless xyz happens. Now do you honestly think they are going to send out ANY communication that says "hey NetJets employee things are not going well and YOU yes you mr dispatcher, owner services rep, travel dep agent ETC might be out of a job" ah NO!!! Ever hear of someone playing both sides?

I have many friends that work on the floor in Columbus. Whats sad to me is the total disrespect for you and the lies about whats really going on.

Yes the pay offer was that bad. In fact some pilots would under the current proposal take a pay cut vs our current 4 year old CBA. Would you vote for a pay cut? There is so much more to this stroy that I just cant talk about. Seek out a fellow pilot and find out whats really going on. The truth may just shock you.

Here's the difference - the promises made by the company that I referred to are in writing several times over - that means they will be held accountable for what they say. The suppossed "promises" I hear about on this board about what RTS or BB says are all rumor as far as I can tell - until I see it in writing it means nothing - especially coming from folk with personal agendas and bad attitudes.

Regardless, at the moment, the company's actions are speaking even louder than their words. I have seen some significant long term investments at least in the operations side at Bridgeway recently which speaks volumes about their commitement to certain long term goals. If there was any fear the company was losing ground or afraid of going out of business you wouldn't know it by the progress being made.

If there was any disrespect the way you imply above I would know about it.

Since I have only seen the company's "highlights" of their proposal contrasted with the "insulting" remarks made by "pilots" on this board I can't make an objective opinion on the last offer other than to say I am certain I don't get the whole story from either side. Neither are objective, or remotely exhaustive. The union has their spin, the company has their's - what else does anyone expect at this point?

Since the union won't publicize any of their proposals, and looking at the company's books don't seem that important to them - what are we supposed to believe exactly?

A statement was made today that said part of the unions proposal includes a $200,000 signing bonus for each pilot. Without the typical spin, perhaps you can at least confirm or deny this and explain how the union justifies it. Does your union leadership share Diesel's attitude that they don't give a rip how much money the company makes - " 'this' is how much we cost so just pay up?"

 

[semperfido]

Shut this pig down.

gotta call em the way i see em. it is boring over on the Corp board tonight. oink oink