Net jets scab pilot negotiator

[realityman]

...and I rest my case, ladies and gentlemen.

I hope so.

See you on the picket line.

 

[imacdog]

...and I rest my case, ladies and gentlemen.

What case is that? That it's a good idea not to F your buddy, because your buddy won't treat you well afterward? The entire industry already knows this, but thanks.

 

[pilotyip]

This is why. These are the consequences of scabbing. If there were no consequences for stabbing your fellow pilots in the back, a lot more people would do it, and the whole concept of striking would be dead.

But it is not stabbing your fellow pilots in the back when the "Company Busters" put the company out of business and leave the pilot unemployed. The standard union activist forever promise of more days off and more pay until you have all your days off with no pay. Those should never be considered when you are showing the company who is boss. In this case striking is not dead, but the company is, who was the winner?

 

[imacdog]

Still reminescing about the old days, Yip? Perhaps if you had gotten yourself hired onto a decent carrier instead of settling for hauling auto parts, you'd think differently about hoping to attain mediocrity as a high point in the career. I guess with the big improvements that NetJets pilots made in the 2005 and 2007 contracts, that the company should be out of business? So why are they making profits?

 

[Semore Butts]

Why do you waste your time on that myopic fool? Thanks for trying though.

What case is that? That it's a good idea not to F your buddy, because your buddy won't treat you well afterward? The entire industry already knows this, but thanks.

This is why. These are the consequences of scabbing. If there were no consequences for stabbing your fellow pilots in the back, a lot more people would do it, and the whole concept of striking would be dead.

 

[gret]

I'm sure this will be popular...

The commentary about belonging to the union and walking the picket line sounds a lot like a inner city gang recruiting members. Join up or else...

If a man didn't want a union in the first place, how is it "stabbing your buddy in the back" when you don't conform. If your actions and beliefs are flawed in one's opinion, why would they want to join in and perpetuate the train wreck further? Some say they will get the benefits of your efforts, but they would look at it that they get the downside.

Real employee rights issues are one thing and would most likely gain 100% support. Work stoppages to simply gain further benefits/higher salaries is another. It's not like anyone is starving or being denied benefits that many others would love to have. Now is not a good time to be greedy...times will get better then ask for the moon.

Pay me or else (extortion) doesn't sit well with most Americans. A good gut check is to ask one's spouse and/or friends what they think about your abusive employer...after the spouse kicks your butt and your friends get up off the floor from laughing, you will probably have the right answer.

Hopefully all this is a moot point, but every issue has at least two sides and being on one side or the other doesn't turn you into a devil. It merely means you have a different view.

Don't give a rat's ass whether you strike or not, just don't like seeing a few radicals trying to lead a good bunch of men and women over the cliff for what is probably a bunch of fluff. If it is warranted...go for it...if it is just nice to have, you won't have much support.

 

[realityman]

Gret,

Not a correct analogy. We aren't 'recruiting'. Everyone is already in the union. Now I do realize that the former NJI folks had no choice.
But didn't they? The union is not forcing anyone to remain employed at NJA. Hate unions, and especially THIS union? No problem, quit and take another job that's non-union where the employer can screw with you wages and work rules all day, every day.
I always enjoyed B19's posts where he would argue that if you didn't like the work conditions at a non-union shop you should just quit and go somewhere else. Well, I would argue the same applies to folks working at union shops who don't like it.

If you choose to stay, then whether you like it or not, you are accepting the union way of doing things. I'm pretty sure everyone currently here knows what it's all about. If you then decide you're going to actively work against the union's goals (which is what scabbing is) then you are also accepting the consequences of doing that. Coming on message boards and whining that you don't understand why union folks are such big meanies to scabbers is like complaining you don't understand why your best buddy hates you after you've slept with his wife.

By the way, the financial reports at NJA are quite impressive! Please explain why you think now isn't the time to ask for the moon. Additionally, these negotiations will take some time. Years really. When asking for more, I would agree that timing is everything. But if the trends are looking up, you need to start the process to end up hitting it at the best point. It's a bit of a guess, but well, a lot of things are. If we wait until we are actually at the top of curve, by the time we get to the meat and potatoes of negotiations we may be into a downturn, which would not help our case one bit.

As for the rest of your post, it's irrelevant. Who cares what others make and whether they'd be happy to be where we are now. Are you suggesting that we should all compare ourselves to the lowest paid people in America, and if we're above them just shut up and be happy? Great. We can all make minimum wage and not complain because that's what others do. I suppose if I tell my friends and family what my compensation package is compared to the average janitor and mention we are trying for more, they might be laughing their butts off. But if I tell them my compensation package compared to the other top-of-the-line professional compensation packages in this industry (FedEx, Delta, United, heck, even USAirways) they would probably wish me luck and wonder why I make so much less.

I suppose it's all perspective. I can appreciate yours, but can't agree with it.

You know, it still amazes me that pilots don't support each other 100% when another group of pilots are trying to improve things. What is it to you or Yip if we're trying for a much improved compensation package? If we succeed, isn't that good for everyone across the industry? Everyone hates the race to the bottom we've seen so often in this industry, and even get derisive about the pilots who take concessionary contracts, or go to work for ratbag operators. But so many of those same folks also appear to hate those who are trying to race to the top. Why isn't every single person on Flightinfo (who isn't a management troll) cheering us on and wishing us the best? I remember so many telling us that our '05 contract would bankrupt the company. And even after we went on to record profits AFTER the contract was signed, no one said 'nice job'. And ironically, we saw a lot of other operators give raises to their pilots 'coincidentally' right after our contract was signed. Heck, Citationshares' new pay scales almost exactly mirrored our pay scales. Oh yeah, coincidence. I wonder how many union haters at other operators who got raises right after us rushed to give that money back to their employer.

How about everyone just say "Good luck guys.". If you work at NJA, our success will directly benefit you. If you don't work here, our success is still likely to benefit you in some way.

And if we fail or put the company out of business, THEN come in with all the "greedy idiots" and "I knew that was going to happen" and "stupid union" comments.

 

[Praetorian]

Newsflash: Gret is paid to post on this forum by union busters.

Remember something fundamental. If he and his masters had their way, they would have us all down on our knees groveling before our management.

 

[gret]

Again, we're being a bit melodramatic aren't we?

You left yourself open with wording in the comments, but it's Mother Day's and I'm enjoying the golf on TV so we'll let it pass.

 

[Praetorian]

Spoken like a true Internet strategist.

Have a good Mother's Day.