Net jets scab pilot negotiator

[Pervis]

What about flying a CAL where the Scabs won? or we don't count that because because they were allowed back in the union?

No choice. There is currently no active picket lines drawn. We can't avoid the past, nor what a different union/pilot group chose.

 

[gret]

You keep asking why more people don?t support you or wish you well...simple fact is that not all believe in what a union is trying to accomplish. You say that it can only be good?well that isn?t true. There are some very bad things that can happen and it isn?t a game.

As mentioned, if it is a really justifiable issue, you won?t have to ask for support?everyone will be with you. Gaining a few more immaterial $?s or benefits because you want it, versus deserving it, simply doesn?t sit well with a lot of people?our DNA is one of fairness, not being piggish.

Also, the vitriolic comments made by some hardcore union supporters, not you, doesn't help your cause. Who wants to join up with a bunch of mentally and socially challenged rednecks and give them carte blanche with their careers. Screaming constantly about mgmt being a ?bunch of thieves?, ?we need to impose our will?, ?out the potential scab?, and one of my favorites..."union buster"...serves little purpose and is a real turnoff to most well balanced people?the very ones that you are asking for support.

 

[imacdog]

Gret, you understand there really is such thing as a professional union buster?

 

[Praetorian]

Gret, you understand there really is such thing as a professional union buster?

Oh he understands because he is one. He's just using the tried and true method of throwing out red herrings. Look over there!

So lets put this to rest...

Gret,

You've been on here for a while posing as a pilot. So I'll bite. Who do you work for? What equipment do you fly?

 

[gret]

Gret, you understand there really is such thing as a professional union buster?

Yes sir...I do...find it interesting that anybody with contrary views gets that tag.

But then again, for some people-

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away​

 

[gret]

Oh he understands because he is one. He's just using the tried and true method of throwing out red herrings. Look over there!

So lets put this to rest...

Gret,

You've been on here for a while posing as a pilot. So I'll bite. Who do you work for? What equipment do you fly?

Silly rabbit...the Federation on NCC1701E

 

[Praetorian]

Well, there you have it folks.

I'd like to formally introduce ^^ the latest version Hbogart, B19 et al. to you all. Mr. Spock here is just the latest iteration.

As the NJ folks enter collective bargaining (and in a little over a year FO), I expect him to be busy on here. Remember his bag of tricks. FUD, misdirection and scapegoating.

 

[realityman]

You keep asking why more people don?t support you or wish you well...simple fact is that not all believe in what a union is trying to accomplish. You say that it can only be good?well that isn?t true. There are some very bad things that can happen and it isn?t a game.

As mentioned, if it is a really justifiable issue, you won?t have to ask for support?everyone will be with you. Gaining a few more immaterial $?s or benefits because you want it, versus deserving it, simply doesn?t sit well with a lot of people?our DNA is one of fairness, not being piggish.

Also, the vitriolic comments made by some hardcore union supporters, not you, doesn't help your cause. Who wants to join up with a bunch of mentally and socially challenged rednecks and give them carte blanche with their careers. Screaming constantly about mgmt being a ?bunch of thieves?, ?we need to impose our will?, ?out the potential scab?, and one of my favorites..."union buster"...serves little purpose and is a real turnoff to most well balanced people?the very ones that you are asking for support.

Gret,

I'm not going to go back and forth with you about this forever. At least you answered my questions.

I would address the want it vs deserve it comparison you brought up. I think you may be believing in some utopian world where everyone gets what they deserve if they just work hard enough. Sorry, most places don't work like that. I have learned that you get what you negotiate. It's that simple. I've worked for both union and nonunion shops. I most definitely worked harder, and poured more of myself and my life into the nonunion shop than the union shop. I have nothing against hard work. I STILL work very hard at this union shop. The difference was, at the nonunion shop I got to witness pilots who didn't work as hard, but who did a lot of management a**-kissing get the better spots and higher pay. The ones who would NEVER say they were too tired to fly. The ones who somehow only had write-ups on the planes at our home base. I flew with a guy who NEVER went missed approach, even when at minimums I was screaming to go around because we could barely see the nose of the plane let alone approach lights. When I brought these issues up with management, do you know what I was told? "We have a stack of resumes 10 feet high for pilots. Is there anything else, or would you like to go back to work now."

Unfrtunately, one of the downsides of unionism is that the slackers will receive the same as all the others who work very hard. Ah well. I prefer that system over the other way.

But back to compensation. What does it matter what YOU think we should make? We're trying to raise the bar. This can only be good for all pilots in the industry. Please explain to me how you would be harmed whether we succeed or fail? Keeping in mind that for all the extreme rhetoric you may hear, a strike will never happen. You say bad things can happen and it's not a game. I agree it's not a game, but my remarks are in regards to all the pilots who will be observing our fight, including you. By wishing us good luck, what bad things can happen to you, and the other observers, whether we succeed or fail? I'm always willing to listen and learn.

And even if you think we're being 'piggish' (I don't think anyone here has even mentioned what we're looking to get, so how do you know we're being unreasonable?), why not just remain silent rather than tell us we will/should fail? Seems pretty 'piggish' to wish a group of people ill who are trying to better things for themselves, and indirectly, many others in the industry. Do you cheer on all the pilots who take concessionary contracts? "Nice job guys! Way to show you're not greedy. Heck, that's probably all you deserve anyway. And for those of us who feel guilty about making a good living at what we do, we now have another choice of crappy job to go to if we want. Way to go!".

Okay, I'm done. Very sorry you can't even bring yourself to say a simple "Good luck." to folks who are trying to reverse the trend we've seen in this industry for so long. Union or nonunion, doesn't matter. Still hard to believe pilots can't express good thoughts to those trying for better.

 

[gret]

Good luck...nobody is wishing anybody ill will.

You originally asked for support and that is different. If the issue is righteous, everyone will support it...if not...apathy will reign which is the way it should be.

 

[pilotyip]

Oh he understands because he is one. He's just using the tried and true method of throwing out red herrings. Look over there!

So lets put this to rest...

Gret,

You've been on here for a while posing as a pilot. So I'll bite. Who do you work for? What equipment do you fly?

I am going to bet he is a NJ guy who is happy with his job and like G4 sees more downside from messing with a good thing than upside by being confrontational. Again only a guess. But then again this is FI so we don't have to deal in reality.

 

[imacdog]

Haha, what do you know about reality, YIP? Ask any of the NJA pilots whether being confrontational in 2005 was worth it.

 

[realityman]

I am going to bet he is a NJ guy who is happy with his job and like G4 sees more downside from messing with a good thing than upside by being confrontational. Again only a guess. But then again this is FI so we don't have to deal in reality.

Yeah, we heard the same thing back in '05. That worked out terribly for us (and all those who thought there was more bad than good that we would accomplish).

Guess we'll just have to see how it goes.

Gret, thanks for the civil discourse. We won't agree on everything, but at least it can be discussed.

 

[gret]

No problem...thank you...we all get smarter when we discuss matters openly and maturely.

 

[gutshotdraw]

No problem...thank you...we all get smarter when we discuss matters openly and maturely.

It's certainly better in that respect on FI than on the union board.

 

[acaTerry]

G4,
Don't forget there is the NJFF to help you with hardships...donations mostly from union pilots. I too have sick, lame and dying relatives...all in town with me. One of which is about to be dropped in my lap. I suspect 3 yrs or so before anytging "big" happens in this process, so that's some time to build up for a strike in necessary, which would likely not even happen. The company is doing well. JH knows it and WB said it. Keep your hopes up and stay cohesive. The herd of smallish musk ox fight off predators by staying together and fighting. The wildebeest are easy prey because it's "every animal for itself" with them.
Yip,
how do you think working at NJA became "a good thing"? Hint: It was NOT managements generosity.