Net Jets Offers

[Hogprint]

I'm not sure I am following your point. Would that constitute Single Carrier status? Are you saying that all the fractionals are in cahoots, now? Plus, there is a big difference between flying the "poohbahs" around and flying the "owners", isn't there?

Like I said before, I have nothing to do with the contract fight and don't care to either. I'm just telling you that as an NJA scheduler, I don't have control over the flight schedules for any of the other companies that fall under the Berkshire umbrella or that we deal with on a daily basis. Their flight schedulers control their fleets. Not me or any other NJA scheduler.

Again, this issue is for Management, the Union and/or the courts to figure out.

I'm not saying we are in cahoots, just that maybe calls can be made? Point taken between poohbahs/owners.

The point I was making was I have been placed on a flight between rival carriers when something was canceled. I don't know if we do anything like that.

 

[Hogprint]

dsptcher posted:

It's hard, sometimes, not to think of the local union as your anchor in light of all the other free-floating "at-will" boats unencumbered by dead weight.

Enlighten us again about these "at-will" boats?

NJI is your best example and I would agree they look good from across the fence. The pilots that post here seem satisfied, but they have even stated their pay is middle to lower tier for their equipment.

I would disagree with any of the other frax with the possible exception of CS, who seems to be getting it and taking the lead in this industry.

 

[Ultra Grump]

abenaki - I didnt include inflation for the period from 98-01 because I assumed it was included in the numbers that were agreed to in the original contract. Much like how you want to include inflation figures for the future years of the next contract.

Ok, once more for the REALLY slow:

Actually, Cost-of-Living is NOT included in the current CBA. If it were, there would be the payscale we have now (YOS = Year of Signing), and several others that are for YOS+1, YOS+2, YOS+3, which would include a Cost of Living increase. This is the way it's done at airlines, and I was floored when I got here and saw we didn't have it. Stupid in my opinion. So a pilot (any seat, any year of service) in 1998 had SIGNIFICANTLY more buying power than a pilot today with the same seat/year.

So for example, a 5th year captain in 1998 made $60984. A 5th year captain in 2001 still made $60984. A 5th year captain in 2005 makes $60984. If the 1998 pilot bought something for $1000, for the 2001 pilot to buy the same item should have cost $1088. For the 2005 pilot to buy that item, it should cost $1157 or more, since there is no data on the actual 2005 COLA. So no, there has been no COLA on our rates, and yes, ALL the time covered by the CBA is affected by Cost of Living increases.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Ok, once more for the REALLY slow:

Actually, Cost-of-Living is NOT included in the current CBA. If it were, there would be the payscale we have now (YOS = Year of Signing), and several others that are for YOS+1, YOS+2, YOS+3, which would include a Cost of Living increase. This is the way it's done at airlines, and I was floored when I got here and saw we didn't have it. Stupid in my opinion. So a pilot (any seat, any year of service) in 1998 had SIGNIFICANTLY more buying power than a pilot today with the same seat/year.

So for example, a 5th year captain in 1998 made $60984. A 5th year captain in 2001 still made $60984. A 5th year captain in 2005 makes $60984. If the 1998 pilot bought something for $1000, for the 2001 pilot to buy the same item should have cost $1088. For the 2005 pilot to buy that item, it should cost $1157 or more, since there is no data on the actual 2005 COLA. So no, there has been no COLA on our rates, and yes, ALL the time covered by the CBA is affected by Cost of Living increases.

Your overlooking the obvious. The same 5th year NJA Capt in 1998 who made $61,000 is now making $88,000 in 2005. I'd say that keeps up with inflation - COLA or no COLA.

 

[Starman]

Your overlooking the obvious. The same 5th year NJA Capt in 1998 who made $61,000 is now making $88,000 in 2005. I'd say that keeps up with inflation - COLA or no COLA.

But a 5th year Captain in 1998 made much more money in real dollars than a 5th year Captain now. That's the definition of COLA - not the psuedoscience you tried to come up with. Longevity raises are not the same thing as a COLA. Never have been.

 

[Bad Monkey!]

dsptchrNJA your such a dork. Get back into your latex and get whipped.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Ok, once more for the REALLY slow:

Actually, Cost-of-Living is NOT included in the current CBA. If it were, there would be the payscale we have now (YOS = Year of Signing), and several others that are for YOS+1, YOS+2, YOS+3, which would include a Cost of Living increase. This is the way it's done at airlines, and I was floored when I got here and saw we didn't have it. Stupid in my opinion. So a pilot (any seat, any year of service) in 1998 had SIGNIFICANTLY more buying power than a pilot today with the same seat/year.

So for example, a 5th year captain in 1998 made $60984. A 5th year captain in 2001 still made $60984. A 5th year captain in 2005 makes $60984. If the 1998 pilot bought something for $1000, for the 2001 pilot to buy the same item should have cost $1088. For the 2005 pilot to buy that item, it should cost $1157 or more, since there is no data on the actual 2005 COLA. So no, there has been no COLA on our rates, and yes, ALL the time covered by the CBA is affected by Cost of Living increases.

Grump - I know there are no specific COLA increases in the contract, but my point was that this was probably taken into account in the bargaining process and the scale that was set probably included a COLA number.....much the same way you want to add COLA right now to set the base for the new contract.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Your overlooking the obvious. The same 5th year NJA Capt in 1998 who made $61,000 is now making $88,000 in 2005. I'd say that keeps up with inflation - COLA or no COLA.

But a 5th year Captain in 1998 made much more money in real dollars than a 5th year Captain now. That's the definition of COLA - not the psuedoscience you tried to come up with. Longevity raises are not the same thing as a COLA. Never have been.

A 5th year captain making $61k in 1998 would have buying power of $71,513 in today's dollars, based on the federal COLA numbers.

As dsptchrNJA pointed out, that same captain is now making $88k, simply due to the longevity raises, which represents a 23% increase over the $71k number.

 

[abenaki]

Family Guy....

Yes, but the 5th year guy today is making LESS than the 5th guy guy of 1998........That's the bottom line.....So, "my" fifth year pay" today does not offer me the same buying power as teh 5th year guy in 1998. That's the issue at hand.

The fact that the 5th year guy is now making 80K is irrelevant to the fact that his pay NOW offers HIm less buying power that that level of pay in 1998.

There is no way that $61K in 1998 is the same as $61K now.....and that's what 5th people are making today......1998 5th year dollars.....So, we ARE going backwards no matter how you slice it....

My point is that thus far, the company has offered nothing but regressive pay scales thus far......And as I have pointed out, at the end of say, a four-year contract going out to '09, the $61K of 1998 has to be in the ballpark of over $81k TO SIMPLY KEEP THE PAY AT THE SAME BUYING-POWER LEVEL OF 61K IN 1998. ANYTHING SHORT OF THAT IS A REGRESSIVE CONTRACT AND OES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT WE ARE STILL UNDERPAID FOR THE INDUSTRY..

So, going back to "bargaining in good faith"...in 4 years, the company has failed to offer anything that is not badly regressive.

There is no way this pilot group will sign something that represents LESS money.

 

[igneousy2]

pilot shortage

You're right...their is no pilot shortage. However, nobody with any kind of experience will work for the wages that NJ is offering. I was about to apply but decided against it. I like the gateway airport concept but the pay...

I would have worked for the pay the gulfstream guys make but the minimums are ridicules.

I have 6000+tt, 1000+jet, 4000+ turbine, 500+ 121 turbine pic...but I can't be an FO on a G-IV...give me a break. Let's see...Gulfstreams got wings, push to go down, pull to go up... WTF!

And the irony is that if I go to the non gulfstream side I will never be qualified to go to the gulfstream side as I will never get that 500 hours of gulfstream time...ridicules

I wish you guys luck...united you bargain...divided you beg!

Later