Net Jets International (EJI, Gulfstreams)

[Majik]

Yak,
Using your logic, nobody should have ever taken the 1st airline job, because the pay used to be horrific. Using your logic, pilots at regionals should stop their efforts to increase wages because they have historically paid low salaries. You seem to see most situations as hopeless unless someone has previously blazed the trail ahead of you and fought the fight you are not willing to even attempt.

The problem isn't "if the company can afford the salaries." They can, and it won't seriously effect their bottom line. The problem is convincing the company that they have little choice but to fund adequate pilot salaries. To date they have never been forced to have to make that choice.

Although most of us did buy into the MEC's rosey promise of NBAA comparable wages, we still have a very good chance to improve salaries significantly. One thing that is necessary to effect those changes is for the entire group to unify and support our negotiators. The problem for the last 3 years has been that our negotiators never unified the group by setting and keeping firm expectations. They were confident they could do better if they negotiated in secrecy. They never enlisted any outside help until the last minute, and lost confidence in their bargaining power and the support of the pilots they represented. We now have a second chance coming up with the new slate of negotiators. Only time will tell whether they will be more successful than the last group, but heck, they can't do much worse.

Sure, it would have been utopic is nobody would have ever taken the first job at NJA until the company offered a fair wage but that never happened. The bad news is that there are very few jobs available to go to. But the good news is that there are very few jobs available to go to, so we stand a better chance of unifying the group and making a stand that will have to be taken seriously.

Oh yeah, and if you don't think Santulli is pleased to flaunt NJI in the faces of the collective bargaining side of the company every chance he gets, then you are the one that needs an education. Just like my analogy in my earlier thread about the allowance, we intend to attempt to make the parent treat everyone fairly.

 

[da90drivr]

Maybe I am missing something here, nut how does dragging the NJI pilots into the NJA system help you? They operate an airframe type that NJA does not and there are far fewer of them than you.

It sounds like a seniority grab to me. An excuse for a few 'senior' people to fly a bigger airplane.

Maybe I am missing something.

 

[Majik]

Just curious...

Why would you want to force a group of pilots into a union that vigorously don't want anything to do with unions?

Muddy

I think it's the planes we are after, not the pilots. I think it's a question of scope. Yes, there is bitterness here at NJA that was generated from the difference in treatment by Santulli to the NJA pilots and that has a lot to do with it also. There's bitterness that NJA is profitable and NJI is not, and NJI is enjoying being Santulli's pet while NJA is treated like the red-headed step-child. The company cries poor while they reward the subsidiary that is losing the most and funds NJI pilot's salaries on the backs of the lower paid NJA pilots. Somehow that doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[SkyGirl]

Maybe I am missing something here, nut how does dragging the NJI pilots into the NJA system help you? They operate an airframe type that NJA does not and there are far fewer of them than you.

It sounds like a seniority grab to me. An excuse for a few 'senior' people to fly a bigger airplane.

Maybe I am missing something.

Finally, the real story comes out...

 

[Muddauber]

I think it's the planes we are after, not the pilots. I think it's a question of scope. Yes, there is bitterness here at NJA that was generated from the difference in treatment by Santulli to the NJA pilots and that has a lot to do with it also. There's bitterness that NJA is profitable and NJI is not, and NJI is enjoying being Santulli's pet while NJA is treated like the red-headed step-child. The company cries poor while they reward the subsidiary that is losing the most and funds NJI pilot's salaries on the backs of the lower paid NJA pilots. Somehow that doesn't seem fair to me.

Just curious...I have friends at NJI, guys I flew with in the Big Blue...

What would you do with their pilots that have been there since day one - staple them to the bottom of the seniority list or merge them? Would they then be moved to whatever jet their seniority number could hold if you merged or to the Citations if you didn't?

Muddy

 

[On Your Six]

Maybe I am missing something here, nut how does dragging the NJI pilots into the NJA system help you? They operate an airframe type that NJA does not and there are far fewer of them than you.

It sounds like a seniority grab to me. An excuse for a few 'senior' people to fly a bigger airplane.

Maybe I am missing something.

The GIV and GV are operated alongside the regular fleet in Europe - why not in the US? NJA operates BBJs - why not the Gulfstreams too? Flight Options operates GIVs in its fleet alongside smaller aircraft. Divide and conquer is the strategy employed and it does not make sense operationally - why have an overlap? I am sure some of the Gulfstream guys would love to fly a BBJ...

 

[da90drivr]

Gunfyter,

I think your logic may be a little flawed here, NJA is a union shop - you will get nothing that you do not negotiate. (browse the regional /major airline sections of this board)
You operate under a collective agreement negotiated by your union and the company. The company is not withholding benefits given to other employees, your union just failed to have them added into your contract.

By your reasoning if the company allows for flight attendants to stay at 5 star hotels reguardless of cost the pilots should stay at the same hotel. CBAs and unions don't work that way.

Just my opinion.

Mudd man

Its not likely the suit would go to integration unless that is what the company wants. All we want is to be paid and be treated properly. All the company has to do is pay us right and not withhold benefits they give to the non-union side of the house and this will all be a non-issue.

 

[da90drivr]

So I f I understand you correctly because you can't get what you want from the company you will go after another pilot group and screw them to make yourself feel better?

Scope is a pretty weak argument too, NJI = separate company (same parent)different mission, different owners. How will you control the EJM flying? Don't they provide supplemental lift for NJA and NJI? What are you willing to give up to get scope? Pay? Work rules?

I am still interested in your answer to my original question - How do you benefit from 'merging' the two groups? They get stapled, take a pay cut and and possibly lose their seat. You keep the same pay rate, get a few planes,maybe move up a few numbers on the list and the biggest bonus of all....you get a group of pissed off pilots (think AA / TWA).

It might be more productive to focus on improving your situation using the RLA to your advantage. Management loves to play employee groups off one another. It takes the pressure off them.

That's all for now, look forward to your response.

90

That is part of the negotiation... to obtain what we want. Its called hardball. We cannot strike because of RLA... So a nice shot in the face is a Single Carrier suit.

 

[Majik]

I think your logic may be a little flawed here, NJA is a union shop - you will get nothing that you do not negotiate. (browse the regional /major airline sections of this board)
You operate under a collective agreement negotiated by your union and the company. The company is not withholding benefits given to other employees, your union just failed to have them added into your contract.

I am still interested in your answer to my original question - How do you benefit from 'merging' the two groups?

It might be more productive to focus on improving your situation using the RLA to your advantage. Management loves to play employee groups off one another. It takes the pressure off them.

That's all for now, look forward to your response.

You are absolutely right; we will get nothing that we do not negotiate.
NJA is a union shop.
Company gives preferential treatment to non-union pilots.
We must use the tools available to us.
RLA (mediator) will not release us for self-help.
Find a way to take something away from the company.
Company wants NJI to remain non-union.
We threaten the company's ability to have a non-union flight department.
Company can choose to increase original offer to union group or not.
It's called negotiating and may help improve our situation.
Since it's something the company feels so strongly against, maybe they'll pay to make it go away.

So, the answer to your original question, "How do you benefit from 'merging' the two groups?
By threatening to take something away from the company that they value dearly - their non-union pilots.

 

[dime line]

Majik.....We must use the tools available to us.
RLA (mediator) will not release us for self-help


Because I don't know.. I thought a strike was the unions/pilots Ace card. And that would be the very last option?

Does "Self-Help" mean Strike, in fancy term

Thanks