Net Jets International (EJI, Gulfstreams)

[FL510GV]

G-IV/G-V/G-550 guys/gals?

How's life been over the past couple of years? Schedule (6/5 or 7/7, how often do you actually fly all the days you're on)? Company? People? Atmosphere? New Contract? Where's it going? Any truth to the NJA/NJI merger rumors? Anything else that you think I might want to know.

 

[Muddauber]

It's not a "merger". It's called a single carrier petition. Look for it in the near future.

As to the "contract", the NJI guys don't currently operate under a contract. They are at-will employees without any protection. Unfortunately, they will find out what that means shortly. They will get coverage under a CBA, but probably not under the ideal conditions since NJA pilots will dictate the terms. It's been a good ride but it's coming to an end.

Just curious...

Why would you want to force a group of pilots into a union that vigorously don't want anything to do with unions?

Muddy

 

[Jack Schitt]

Because they want to force the NJI guys to take a bite out of the same schitt sandwich they'll be eating in a couple months.

 

[zman300]

Because they want to force the NJI guys to take a bite out of the same schitt sandwich they'll be eating in a couple months.

A-MEN! Maybe they ought to worry about what the Teamsters are doing for them (or is that "aren't?") before they start worrying about what they'll do to the folks at NJI. Tsk tsk; such un-called for bitterness! If only some of the A guys understood many on the I side are actually sympathetic to their cause (not that they want a union, of course).

Last I heard, from an NJA guy who confronted me at Dulles back in April, we were merged, and one big, happy family, as of July 2004. Get the point?

 

[zman300]

Back to the original question...

G-IV/G-V/G-550 guys/gals?

How's life been over the past couple of years? Schedule (6/5 or 7/7, how often do you actually fly all the days you're on)? Company? People? Atmosphere? New Contract? Where's it going? Any truth to the NJA/NJI merger rumors? Anything else that you think I might want to know.

Merger rumors are pretty much dead as far as the I side is concerned; I guess some A guys still think it'll still happen. Whatever...we'll cross that bridge when it really becomes an issue. Schedules still haven't changed, in spite of thoughts we might all be getting on 7/7; who knows if it'll happen, but I'm not betting on it. Company's still great (not to say it's perfect, of course); people are still great; we're hiring again; upgrades are still slow, but FO pay isn't shabby; pay raises will be modest for the forseeable future. And I dare not tell how many days I actually work on the road on average 'cause somebody might get a little upset, but most people do nothing but airline on their 1st and last days.

 

[Muddauber]

Mudd,

When did you fly T-43s? I was at MHR between 89 and 92.

Check PM.

 

[GVFlyer]

Let's see. RTS started NJI just to poke our union in the eye. Unfortunately, the union guys that were in charge at the time weren't smart enough to just say no. That situation will be rectified in the near future.

But to answer your question, RTS makes sure that the NJI guys always have just a little bit better deal than we do. It's his way of tweaking the union every chance he gets. We're not so much concerned about adding a bunch of pilots "that vigorously don't want anything to do with unions" but ridding ourselves of an irritant put in place to undermine our scope.

Not true. Gulfstream is the reason NJI is non-union. When NJI was formed in early 1995, Richard Santulli could not capitalize the venture. Gulfstream, under Bill Boisture's leadership, provided the original three core aircraft. As a condition of the contract, Gulfstream insisted that only experienced Gulfstream pilots be allowed to fly the aircraft at NJI. Rick Schwartz interviewed pilots for NJI's initial cadre in an office in the Customer Lounge adjacent to Gulfstream Flight Operations. Safety is tantamount at Gulfstream and the company wanted to protect their corporate image.

Lee Monson at Boeing made no such requirement for the six aircraft (now 3) they provided to NetJets. Boeing, however, has ended their relationship with NetJets. Gulfstream and NetJets remain marketing partners - Gulfstream sells shares to current Gulfstream and large cabin operators while NetJets sells Gulfstreams to mid- and small cabin operators as well as concept buyers.

Pay at NJI is determined by market conditions and is comparable to corporate positions.

GV

 

[CatYaaak]

Let's see. RTS started NJI just to poke our union in the eye. Unfortunately, the union guys that were in charge at the time weren't smart enough to just say no. That situation will be rectified in the near future.

But to answer your question, RTS makes sure that the NJI guys always have just a little bit better deal than we do. It's his way of tweaking the union every chance he gets. We're not so much concerned about adding a bunch of pilots "that vigorously don't want anything to do with unions" but ridding ourselves of an irritant put in place to undermine our scope.

Wow, talk about revisionist history. Most of the qualified Gulfstream guys who went to NJI took pay cuts compared to the corporate jobs they had in return for a schedule. The pay scale offered had everything to do with being able to keep it competetive enough to attract them...nothing to do with "tweaking" your little union and the POS wages you agreed to fly citations, hawkers, and beechjets for...that foundation had already been laid. Basically, they wouldn't have come to work at all for pay based on a graduated scale of what EJA would have started them at.

Trying to force NJI pilots into your union is nothing more than bitterness against guys who were able to demand higher salaries based on thier higher qualifications in type and experience in international ops compared to EJA/NJA guys who mostly came from the ranks of commuter airlines at that time. See the previous post of why Gulfstream wouldn't want that kind of exposure.

 

[Majik]

Yak,

The company recently provided our MEC with the financial health of the entire company. NJA is marginally profitable. NJI has been consistently losing money, year after year. The parent has been funding NJI's losses and expenses (including NJI pilot's higher salaries) with the profits from NJA. Those profits have come about partially because the parent chose to pay NJA pilots significantly lower pay.

Let's say I have twin 12 year old sons. I give one son $100/week allowance, the other son I only give $40. The $100 son is a drain on my budget and always keeps me in the red. The $40 son takes an after-school job and actually provides positive income for the family. After awhile the $40 son will become unhappy that he is being slighted by the parent, and will demand a fair increase in his allowance.


My point is that I think that it's unfair for the parent to reward one son more than the other. If a judge rules that NJI and NJA operations are similar enough to be combined into a single company under a legal ruling, then so be it. If that's what it takes for me to keep a fair share of the money I've worked to earn for this company, then that's what it takes.

 

[CatYaaak]

Yak -

Honestly, go away. No one cares what you have to say on this board. You don't fly for a fractional. Your contempt for fractional pilots clouds all of your posts and because of that, we couldn't give a rat's ass about your opinion on things. Your thoughts are as inconsequential to us as a fart in a whirlwind. Run on along...we don't need or want you here. If you decide to keep posting it won't matter to me. I've decided to just put you on ignore. There's absolutely nothing you could post that I'd need to see.

I hold no contempt for frac pilots, but if you can't deal with and learn from the facts of history, so be it, you're doomed to repea it. I rather doubt you were around in the frac or corp world when your company coming into it's own. The lesson here Griz (a little research on the civ av world would have helped you perhaps) is don't take a lousy-paying job, especially based on some pie-in-the-sky union rhetoric, then whine about others who DIDN'T fall for it and struck a better deal on their own like over at NJI. Accepting the job offer in the first place, as far as any employer is concerned, is tantamount to voting "yes" on what is offered...that's not hard to understand. Been there, done that, turned bad offers down more than once (including your company's) and took the good ones....that's how the game is played in the business world and why salaries rise.

If you want to keep applying airline-style answers and mentality to business aviation situations, you're doomed to keep floundering. Don't you get it? (to put it in terms you might understand)....in effect, you're the LCC of business aviation, and your fight for substantially-higher wages is a fight against the very economic model that made you successful in your niche, not to mention against your frac competition. Good luck if you can change that model, and I mean that sincerely. You shouldn't be punished forever for not educating yourself on the market you were entering.