Neptune Aviation P2 down near Tooele, UT

[flyingwildfires]

+1.

What a waste of human life, a good airplane, all for nothing.

 

[avbug]

Do you maintain Avbug that this was NOT a CFIT that killed them all?

I said nothing of the kind. You have a comprehension problem.

And before you get all 'high and mighty' about this crew was on some heroic mission....

I said nothing of the kind. Your comprehension problem is consistent.

They were on a friggin cross country flight of nearly 1100 miles!

I've done many such dispatches in tankers, all on very short notice. Do you have a point?

The FO never had the expectation that his IFR flight plan had been accepted the night before, because the factual data clearly indicates he attempted to file VFR flight plan and with a VFR altitude.

You don't know this. However, it's irrelevant.

So give me a break Avbug!

Which leg would you prefer, first?

So avbug, call me stupid.

No need; you already did that, yourself. Then you proceeded to prove it.

 

[ultrarunner]

So Avbug, are not willing to offer an opinion as to what led the FO to fly into rising terrain killing himself and his co-works?

I asked you a couple of questions and you don't even answer....

I asked you if you though it was CFIT, and you just make a statement??? What's that about?

I commented the FACTUAL data indicated the FO attempted to file a VFR flight plan...NOT an IFR flight plan. What kind of flight plan do you think he was trying to file Avbug?

If what you claim is true about your experience in tankers, and you seem to be placing this flight in that type of environment, why not add something to the discussion.

PLEASE help educate us all....

Since the more information we have in deciphering the incredibly stupid decisions made that day by the flight crew, will ultimately help us all. Don't you think?

 

[avbug]

Don't you think?

Unlike you, I do think, and on a regular basis, too. I have the benefit of doing so, of course, on a well-matted bed of experience.

Since the more information we have in deciphering the incredibly stupid decisions made that day by the flight crew, will ultimately help us all.

Another stupid assumption on your part. You believe this will help make you a better tanker pilot,then? First, you'll need to get a foot in the door, won't you? Otherwise, given that you can't fathom the concept of short-notice dispatches, flying in low visibility at low altitudes, of flying long distances in large airplanes VFR..there's really nothing here that can help you. Given your commentary, it would appear that you can't be helped.

What kind of flight plan do you think he was trying to file Avbug?

I don't care. I don't speculate. It's irrelevant.

A flight plan had no bearing on the outcome, and would have had no outcome on the bearing. The flight operated under the AFF system, and didn't require a flightplan. The flight was tracked on AFF. When I was forced down on a mountainside on a fire several years ago, the National Interagency Fire Center in Boise was aware of it at nearly the same moment everyone on the fire was aware. When the little airplane symbol on my tag changed to show I wasn't moving, it set a lot of things in motion, far faster and far more effective than the filing of a FAA flight plan.

Whether the crew filed or didn't file, whether they intended to file and didn't file, whether they didn't intend to file and did, whether they planned on filing one way and changed their minds, is irrelevant.

The loss of the airplane and crew is unfortunate, and regrettable. Your idiotic assertion that it was an act of murder does little more than speak poorly of you. That you've dug yourself this pit of embarrassment and continue to dig, also speaks poorly of you. That you don't realize it, really says it all.

I asked you if you though it was CFIT, and you just make a statement???
What's that about?

It's about eleven words affirming your clear comprehension problem, once again.

So avbug, call me stupid.

Why do you continue to insist on offering proof?

 

[ultrarunner]

Otherwise, given that you can't fathom the concept of short-notice dispatches..

Notification the evening before a flight is hardly a 'short-notice dispatch' avbug. And certainly plenty of time to determine if a flight can be done safely or not.

And yes, I have flown long VFR flights safely. I would this crew could have done the same.

And if you think about it. Folks such as these, that are charged with potentially saving the lives of others, need to do it better than the rest of us, since their life-saving skills do us no good if they can't arrive on-station alive.

Good bye.

 

[avbug]

Folks such as these, that are charged with potentially saving the lives of others, need to do it better than the rest of us, since their life-saving skills do us no good if they can't arrive on-station alive.

There you go again, hell-bent-for-leather, trying to prove that you have no clue what it is you're talking about. You're doing a good job, too.

You say "Always" a few too many times, didn't you?

 

[firepilot]

This was not your typical "short notice" dispatch. The crew definitely dropped the ball, so to speak, during the flight planning phase of this mission. The majority of the decisions made (and yes I knew the crew personally) during this flight showed a lack of good judgement. When encountering weather in a tanker (an EMPTY tanker at that) you have choices: 1. FILE, FILE, FILE 2. Turn around 3. Land (both Hill and Ogden were right there). Scud running (no matter how much low level experience you have...i.e. Tanker 99) is not acceptable. This fatal accident was caused by stupidity, and was very preventible.

 

[ultrarunner]

Firepilot, I thought I was basically communicating the same thing. What's up with Avbug that he continually gave me such a hard time about my posts? You and I are on the same page.

 

[avbug]

The tanker crew isn't required to file or land, but may pick up a clearance airborne and continue (a "pop-up" clearance), or may elect to remain VFR or continue under VFR. Therefore, the assertion that "you have choices: 1. FILE, FILE, FILE 2. Turn around 3. Land" is incorrect.

I thought I was basically communicating the same thing.

You were, which means you're both wrong.

 

[Meat n the Seat]

Do any of you guys know what level of ice protection equipment is installed and required to be operational on these aircraft?