Negotiations & The Cost of "Heck No!"

[scopeCMRandASA]

from bvt

If you really had flown with the senior pilots, you would know that this doesn't happen. I'm not "in line" with the RJDC, and have actually had several arguments with Mr. Ford himself, but never have there been threats to fall in line. There isn't one Comair pilot that could honestly say what you said, but I'll be willing to bet there's a Delta pilot who would be low enough to charade as a Comair pilot in an attempt to discredit who doesn't agree with him who would say that.

Consider yourself lucky. I too have talked with Mr. F, and although he is in the same boat with the types I described, I have indeed received the oh so subtle threats, and anonymous not so subtle threats, and can name a few others who have as well.

But go ahead and keep on your hope that I am a Delta pilot. In fact, everybody hope, maybe it will come true. Unfortunately, you'll have to do better than a "their" vs "the" to get me there.


--a concerned regional pilot

 

[bvt1151]

Please explain your previous remarks then:

Originally posted by ScopeCMRandASA
You types are no better than the Delta pilots I read about over on the national boards who keep posting how their strike benefits kept us alive during the strike.

However you must have forgotten that you had earlier said:

Originally posted by ScopeCMRandASA on August 20th, 2003 Thread: United to "Squash ACA like a bug!"
I walked the line with Comair pilots. I contributed to their fund outside of the assessment.

More posters than I have found you suspicious, (i.e. Les Paul, boeingman) and in doing some research I've found that your registration conveniently coincides with a large lull in FlyDeltasJets' posts. In fact, from August 19th (ScopeCMRandASA registered on August 20th) FlyDeltasJets doesn't post again until September 4th, the very day somebody first confronts you about your identity.

You talk much about the specifics of the Delta pilot's contract, as did FlyDeltasJets, but never mention specifics of the Comair contract. In fact, you don't mention anything specific about Comair, and describe our senior pilots as acting much as they would in a confrontation with a Delta pilot, not with a Comair pilot.

Do I have too much time on my hands? I could only wish, but what I do not have time for is somebody posting incognito specifically to create the illusion of dissent within the Comair ranks. I don't think the author of the Benedict Arnold remark really knew how accurate he was.

Help us out...

Who replaced Lynn in the Chief pilot's office?

What happens when you push the automatic opener button on the outside doors to operations?

What happens when you exit the doors at Terminal 1 to catch the bus to the parking lot?

We're timing....

 

[Wacopilot]

bvt1151, good call.......never thought of this fun...

I have some q's, where does the FO's copy of the weight & balance go after it is completed? What color is it?
What is the new callout after we land that MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL?

Here is an easy one, what is our company computer system called?

 

[bvt1151]

I'll even give him a freebie

Question:
What happens when you exit the doors at Terminal 1 to catch the bus to the parking lot?

Answer:
It leaves

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Please explain your previous remarks then:



However you must have forgotten that you had earlier said:



More posters than I have found you suspicious, (i.e. Les Paul, boeingman) and in doing some research I've found that your registration conveniently coincides with a large lull in FlyDeltasJets' posts. In fact, from August 19th (ScopeCMRandASA registered on August 20th) FlyDeltasJets doesn't post again until September 4th, the very day somebody first confronts you about your identity.

Do a search b. I explained why I was fed up with posting on this board. Look in the General section. This was not a "lull," it was a conscious effort to stay off these boards and do something a bit more productive.

Believe it or not.

 

[General Lee]

You guys sound like a bunch of thugs. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. ScopeCMRand ASA has his, and you guys don't like it--so you bash him. That is exactly what your senior pilots do to the junior ones, work with intimidation. Ridiculous.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Hovernut]

Here is an easy one, what is our company computer system called?

Here's another freebie: POS! Especially those in the wings with the dam stupid broke/snagged printers! How 'bout a weather computer with something other than a 8086 driving it!! And while I'm on this rant, how 'bout access to TravelNet from our (insert unnammed company computer system here ) accounts? And the double login???

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

You guys sound like a bunch of thugs. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. ScopeCMRand ASA has his, and you guys don't like it--so you bash him. That is exactly what your senior pilots do to the junior ones, work with intimidation. Ridiculous.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You got it, General. Now I know why FDJ left, and why I should have just stayed as a lurker. Welcome to my daily life. Guys, I am done with the thread creep, your identity crisis. I will say that a copy of every contract is online, my signoff is valid, and I will post again when and if somebody wants to actually debate the true issues. Remember what I have posted. My prediction is that it will come back to haunt you. Take a look in a search on my posts, specifically about interview requirements at SWA. They scoffed there as well.
So much for the exchange of ideas.

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[Treme]

Little bit of thread-creep there. Let's try and wrangle this one away from the RJDC for a moment.

Here were the original 7 questions:

If/When management comes to you and asks for concessions and you say, Not only NO but HECK no! what do you believe their response will be?

1. How will their response impact you and your career?

2. How will it impact the junior pilots on their seniority list?

3. How will their response impact the unity of your pilot group and therefore your stregnth and resolve as a group? (if junior pilots suddenly face furlough)

4. What will your MEC do to foster unity throughout the pilot group?

5. What will your MEC do to prevent, minimize, or mitigate potential furloughs?

6. Does your MEC have a plan that goes beyond "Heck No" and are they prepared to deal with the reality that management will take hostages? Do they have a plan?

7. or am I full of it... will management quietly go home and not come back until the contract is up?

 

[bvt1151]

Apologies Treme, never meant to hijack the thread. We just wanted to make sure that its known that ScopeCMRandASA doesn't speak as a Comair pilot, regardless of his tantrums.

Now, on with the thread!

My answers to your questions...
1. How will their response impact you and your career?

1. Nobody in management is willing to say, or perhaps they don't know because all the real decisions come from Atlanta mgmt has approached us with nothing to offer but "good faith" (whatever that is) that concessions will bring us growth. When a negotiating team approaches the table with nothing to offer, it usually means there will be negative consequences if no agreement is reached.

2. How will it impact the junior pilots on their seniority list?

2. As a jr. pilot, a pay cut for growth would actually lead to an ultimate pay increase. That being said, no growth has been promised...I still vote no.

3. How will their response impact the unity of your pilot group and therefore your stregnth and resolve as a group? (if junior pilots suddenly face furlough)

3. CMR pilots are well known for their solidarity, I'm not sure if there will be an issue between jr. and sr. pilots. However it could be considered that the sole purpose of mgmt's offer was to create that dissent. CMR's negotiating team is very good at what they do, and I wouldn't put it past them.

4. What will your MEC do to foster unity throughout the pilot group?

4. dunno.

5. What will your MEC do to prevent, minimize, or mitigate potential furloughs?

5. I don't think that will be a problem. The reason I say that is that is our major complaint of the Delta pilots. They would rather sacrifice furloughs than give money back. I'm not presenting that as fact, however it is the common feeling at CMR and I think the MEC will go to large measure to prevent that from happening. Then again I may be wrong.

6. Does your MEC have a plan that goes beyond "Heck No" and are they prepared to deal with the reality that management will take hostages? Do they have a plan?

6. My experience would say that they have a plan, however, after talking with some of the reps in the lounge, I walked away largely disappointed and with the feeling that they think nothing will happen if they just say no. I hope that is not the case.

7. or am I full of it... will management quietly go home and not come back until the contract is up?

7. I don't think CMR management initiated the discussions. CMR is making money hand-over-fist. So is ASA, but Delta is not. The CMR mgmt is smart enough to know not to approach us with such an insult unless the order came down from Atlanta. Does DAL mgmt want to be able to return to the DAL pilots and say "we tried to get the Comair pilot's on board, but they scoffed. Your beef is with them"? Splitting the pilot groups always works in mgmt's favor. Remember, Comair is offering something that can only come from Atlanta, growth. We say yes, and they get more money and can say "well Atlanta ultimately makes that decision." WIN. We say no and growth goes to the lowest bidder (We all know who that is)...pilot groups are even more divided. WIN. Either way mgmt wins.

Management is not throwing a hail-mary; they have a plan. I'm disappointed with the union reps in ops because they think we are in a win-win situation when really we are not. Quite the contrary, we are in a lose-lose situation. I really hope they are doing, and thinking something they're not telling us, because not doing anything only lets the events already set in motion play out.