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Need some Virgin America Info...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kezwick
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Damn!!!!! I should have gone to a legacy carrier so I could wait 9 more years to make what I make now. What was I thinking?
I'm not saying you should have done this or that. All I'm saying is that many of the FO's you see as you're walking through the terminal already make as much as you ever will as a Captain.
That's great that you're one of the golden boys. That instant gratification is a wonderful thing. Perhaps there are other people out there who aren't?

Keep us posted how things are going in nine years. You've already essentially hit the wall at year four, selling back vacation. This is it. No future. I wish you good fortune with your upcoming raises.

Keep in mind kids it's not just about pay.Consider monthly health insurance premiums. The B6's and VX's will increase hourly pay $5 in the hopes the rest of the package is forgotten about or acceptable even though it is substandard.
I heard that if you're sick for more than a few days, VA will dump you onto the CA disability system. Please tell me I've been misinformed.
 
All I'm saying is that many of the FO's you see as you're walking through the terminal already make as much as you ever will as a Captain....Keep us posted how things are going in nine years. You've already essentially hit the wall at year four, selling back vacation. This is it. No future. I wish you good fortune with your upcoming raises or pay cuts, whatever the Board decides to give you.


Fixed it for you.


I heard that if you're sick for more than a few days, VA will dump you onto the CA disability system. Please tell me I've been misinformed.

WOW! Another benefit of the non-Union system. You guys sure have a sweet deal!
 
I'm not saying you should have done this or that. All I'm saying is that many of the FO's you see as you're walking through the terminal already make as much as you ever will as a Captain.
That's great that you're one of the golden boys. That instant gratification is a wonderful thing. Perhaps there are other people out there who aren't?

Keep us posted how things are going in nine years. You've already essentially hit the wall at year four, selling back vacation. This is it. No future. I wish you good fortune with your upcoming raises.


I heard that if you're sick for more than a few days, VA will dump you onto the CA disability system. Please tell me I've been misinformed.

More non-union fear mongering from a person who has probably never been non-union. Guess what - management at non-union companies rarely make work rule changes and in my experience at two non-union companies they don't cut pay either. The only time I have ever taken pay cuts was at an ALPA carrier. Your arguments sound great in theory, but they do not match with reality.

In my time at Virgin we have had two pay raises and have been informed by the CEO that the BOD has approved another pay raise for this year. We all agree the pay is not where it needs to be and that the raises were not what we have hoped for in the past. But the point is you do not need a union to get pay raises and in fact often times a union contract serves as perfect ammunition for management to NOT give raises in many years - refer to USAirways.

The only FOs out there making $120/hr are legacy FOs on widebodies. 16 year FOs at USAirways east on the A320 are topping out at $85/hr (and captains are topping out at $125/hr - less than VX captains). United FOs show a yr 12 rate of $94/hr on the A320, and captains are showing yr 12 at $137 on the A320. Even the mighty Delta has 12 yr fo's a $119/hr on the A320.

In real world math $85, $94 and $119 are less than $120. Don't know what math looks like in your world.

I am kind of curious as to how you argue he has "hit the wall". He has annual hourly raises coming, just like at any other carrier. And there is another rate increase coming this year. So how do you arrive at the logic that there is no more coming?

The simple facts are that while a union may be able to give you some bargaining power in some circumstances, in the end the only thing they can guarantee is to take 1.95% of your pay - they cannot guarantee anything else. Argue all you want but there are plenty of examples of to prove every point you make wrong. A union cannot guarantee job security, a union cannot guarantee pay raises, a union cannot guarantee against pay cuts, a union cannot guarantee seniority protection in a merger, a union cannot guarantee solidarity among the pilot group. I fully agree that a union may be needed at times. But your argument that we exist fully at the whim of management and that somehow being in a union means you are not shows extreme ignorance of the realities of the world in which we exist.
 
or pay cuts, whatever the Board decides to give you.

or whatever your ALPA airline wants, just as soon as they declare a sham bankruptcy and file motion 1113 to void your contract. Same end result.
 
More non-union fear mongering from a person who has probably never been non-union. Guess what - management at non-union companies rarely make work rule changes and in my experience at two non-union companies they don't cut pay either. The only time I have ever taken pay cuts was at an ALPA carrier. Your arguments sound great in theory, but they do not match with reality.
I never said anything about pay cuts. Calm down Nancy.

I am kind of curious as to how you argue he has "hit the wall". He has annual hourly raises coming, just like at any other carrier. And there is another rate increase coming this year. So how do you arrive at the logic that there is no more coming?
His hourly raises currently max out at 111K versus the 108k he currently makes. Selling vacation back? Not something to be bragging about. Simple math indeed.
Even the mighty Delta has 12 yr fo's a $119/hr on the A320.
Their LOWEST paid FO is on par with your HIGHEST paid Captain, and you think that's a talking point? Really?


Tell yourself whatever lie you please, but $120/hr and $133 aren't that much different. Especially when $133 is the most you'll ever make and FO's make that anywhere else.

Me? I could care less what you choose to accept as a paycheck.

However, please don't insult us all by pretending VA pay is something that it isn't. It's better than a Beech 1900 paycheck, to be sure....the thing is....you're driving an Airbus, for Christ's sake.

Current scales are less than Virgin pilots got paid in NIGERIA.....That is, of course, before Sir Richard decided to cut his losses and abandon the Brand there..... Good thing you have an absolute guarantee that will NEVER happen here. After all he wasn't making $ in Nigera, so it's apples v oranges.....

Seriously, though......You've got the inside scoop. Please enlighten me... Do they dump you on the CA disability system when you get sick or not? I'd like to know the truth. Who pays your bills if you break your leg and are out of work for six weeks?
 
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However, please don't insult us all by pretending VA pay is something that it isn't. It's better than a Beech 1900 paycheck, to be sure....the thing is....you're driving an Airbus, for Christ's sake.

Current scales are less than Virgin pilots got paid in NIGERIA.....That is, of course, before Sir Richard decided to cut his losses and abandon the Brand there..... Good thing you have an absolute guarantee that will NEVER happen here.

It may be better than a 1900, but QX Q400 guys are making more TODAY than VX Capts.
 
His hourly raises currently max out at 111K versus the 108k he currently makes. Selling vacation back? Not something to be bragging about. Simple math indeed.Their LOWEST paid FO is on par with your HIGHEST paid Captain, and you think that's a talking point? Really?

Okay I don't really know how to respond because in so many ways it doesn't make sense. You actually think the LOWEST paid FOs at Delta are making $119/hr?! If that is how you read that then perhaps you need to go back to school. That is their HIGHEST paid FO on the A320. And that is for a legacy carrier that has been around 7 or 8 decades longer than VX. Our highest paid captain is not at $120 either, it is $133.


Tell yourself whatever lie you please, but $120/hr and $133 aren't that much different. Especially when $133 is the most you'll ever make and FO's make that anywhere else.

You honestly think $133 is the most we'll ever see? Really?! So there will NEVER, EVER be a pay raise at Virgin? Glad you are so sure of that. Since you have apparently found a way to prove Einstein and Stephen Hawking wrong and have the ability to see the future, please tell me who is President on 2045. Your statement has absolutely no basis in fact - you disregard historical precedent: there have been pay raises in each of the past two years and have been informed by management another one has been approved for this year. You disregard any future possibility of unionization and contract negotiations. You disregard any influence of future supply and demand. Your statement that $133 is the most I'll ever see is just as moronic as someone trying to tell us that they know who will be President in 2045. As for FO's making $133 "anywhere else" I suppose by anywhere else you mean anywhere else but Alaska, USAirways, United/Continental, AirTran, Allegiant, Frontier, JetBlue, Spirit and every single regional out there.

Me? I could care less what you choose to accept as a paycheck.

Your posting on here says otherwise.



Current scales are less than Virgin pilots got paid in NIGERIA.....That is, of course, before Sir Richard decided to cut his losses and abandon the Brand there..... Good thing you have an absolute guarantee that will NEVER happen here. After all he wasn't making $ in Nigera, so it's apples v oranges....

First of all Virgin still owns the same percentage of the airline they always have - so they have not cut and run. More ignorance on your part. Second of all nobody has ever claimed that Branson would not cut and run from VX - he is after all a smart businessman (his Billions prove that). As for what they were making in Nigeria - well you'd have to pay a lot to get people to go there. Personally it would take me a minimum of half a million a year to consider going there. It is apples and oranges. You can't look at what one country is paying and compare that to this market. If you do then you should be bashing Delta because they do not pay their A320 pilots as much a Shenzen Airlines.

Seriously, though......You've got the inside scoop. Please enlighten me... Do they dump you on the CA disability system when you get sick or not? I'd like to know the truth. Who pays your bills if you break your leg and are out of work for six weeks?

Honestly don't know the inner workings of the system. But we do have private short and long-term disability insurance that is comparable to what I have had at other carriers.
 
Please enlighten me... Do they dump you on the CA disability system when you get sick or not? I'd like to know the truth. Who pays your bills if you break your leg and are out of work for six weeks?

You get 6 consecutive days with the same 'illness' and then you get put on CA program. It's a BS deal many of us have been advocating to see changed. From what I've heard it's being discussed as part of the comprehensive work rules changes being talked about between mgmt and a pilot committee right now. Word is we'll be going to a bank system like everyone else.

To be clear, here's how it works:
You get sick with the flu in Feb, you call off a 4-day and you get paid, no questions asked. You miss the next trip and you only get paid for the first two days of it, then you get to fill out the CA paperwork and collect from CA. Because VA is a CA company they can do this. Like I said, a BS deal.
Beyond that, say you call out again in June for a boil on your a$$. Again, you get paid for the first consectutive six days and have to file for CA SDI if you go beyond that.
If you have some sort of catastrophic illness and go out for awhile, you get paid for the first six days, then start drawing from a "catastrophic sick bank" that you accrued six days per year of (4 years = 24 days) at 3.5 per day. When that runs out you go on CA SDI for 6 months. After that we have co. paid LTD through a private insurance provider.

I'd bet many CA companies do this for the plain fact they can. CA has made it easy for companies to shuck this liability.
 
You get 6 consecutive days with the same 'illness' and then you get put on CA program. It's a BS deal many of us have been advocating to see changed. From what I've heard it's being discussed as part of the comprehensive work rules changes being talked about between mgmt and a pilot committee right now. Word is we'll be going to a bank system like everyone else.

To be clear, here's how it works:
You get sick with the flu in Feb, you call off a 4-day and you get paid, no questions asked. You miss the next trip and you only get paid for the first two days of it, then you get to fill out the CA paperwork and collect from CA. Because VA is a CA company they can do this. Like I said, a BS deal.
Beyond that, say you call out again in June for a boil on your a$$. Again, you get paid for the first consectutive six days and have to file for CA SDI if you go beyond that.
If you have some sort of catastrophic illness and go out for awhile, you get paid for the first six days, then start drawing from a "catastrophic sick bank" that you accrued six days per year of (4 years = 24 days) at 3.5 per day. When that runs out you go on CA SDI for 6 months. After that we have co. paid LTD through a private insurance provider.

I'd bet many CA companies do this for the plain fact they can. CA has made it easy for companies to shuck this liability.


To add on this. If your out for your second trip for a different reason than the first sick call you start a new 6 day sick period...

Chairman
 
Sorry, Dude, but your highest paid Capt. TODAY makes $120....that's LESS than a QX Q400 Capt made flying his Q400 TODAY.

There are NO VX Capts making $133 an hour TODAY.

Those are FACTS. Sorry if they hurt.....
 
Sorry, Dude, but your highest paid Capt. TODAY makes $120....that's LESS than a QX Q400 Capt made flying his Q400 TODAY.

There are NO VX Capts making $133 an hour TODAY.

Those are FACTS. Sorry if they hurt.....

Sorry, Dude, but you're wrong. Highest paid VX Captain is making $131 an hour TODAY.
 
It may be better than a 1900, but QX Q400 guys are making more TODAY than VX Capts.


apc shows 18 yr qx megawhacker drivers at a $111/hr. Our senior guys are at $126/hr. What other benefits are you throwing in there? Show your cards or change your argument! Agreed our wages suck, but I was a QX gangly ganster and this is a much better gig.
 
Okay I don't really know how to respond because in so many ways it doesn't make sense. You actually think the LOWEST paid FOs at Delta are making $119/hr?!
At 12-14 years, which is what we're talking about, yeah. They are. Try to keep up.
Even the mighty Delta has 12 yr fo's a $119/hr on the A320.
Whatever, I'm not here to nitpick semantics. I don't care one way or the other. What I was really curious about was the disability thing.
You get 6 consecutive days with the same 'illness' and then you get put on CA program.
Wow. Just Wow.
 
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Snapshot-

That is the same program that my last (ALPA) airline had. Six days of medical and then transition to short term disability.

I think (according to friends) VA offers a buy-up option (by Hartford Ins.) to the CA SDI, bringing the income up to 60%(?) of their previous average monthly income, tax free. In addition, there are additional "catastrophic" sick days that are paid out monthly in addition to the SDI payments. All in all, a crewmember will generally take home at least what they were taking home prior to their illness.

VA continues to make their normal contribution to the crewmember's insurance premium payment, and the crewmember continues to make their normal contribution out of their paycheck. At no time while ill (on SDI) is a crewmember responsible to pay the full insurance premium.

S
 
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