need help on salary for FO on Legacy

[rumrnr78]

LD,

I'm not defending the market, just saying what it is. I know of no 900ex/Easy pilots working for under 100K - not even close. And yes, I know if non-typed guys hired into Falcons recently at 100k+ as SICs...that honestly the market at semi-quality jobs...and I personally wouldn't shop anything but - no matter what the market is.

While I don't know where you are shopping, Im talking all major metro areas. SoCal, NY, etc...Is it a hard market? I hear it is...but I have not seen or heard of any low-balling by quality operations. I cant claim to hang with the brightest crowd (lol) but Falcon/Gulfstream/Global guys are not doing too bad around me. I have quite a few friends who fly Falcons (50/900/Easy/7X) and their pay ranges from 115K-200K+....80K? C'mon!!

I cant speak for Legacy pilots. There is no Legacys near me, that I know of.
'
But really, dont even try to lump in the few low ball, work for anything airline types (EMB/BBJ) to the rest of the business. You might find a 55yr old furloughed airline 737 Captain for 75K, and an EMB regional guy who feels he hit the lotto for 50K and a nice hotel....but thats not reality in the rest of the corporate world, even in a $hitty market....Thank God.

I am quoting this post only cause all of them would not fit. I find your posts to LD dismissive, condecending and disrespecful.

You impune his skills and claim that he does not know how to land a "true" jet in a crosswind. I have had the pleasure of flying with LD in a Falcon (For a well known phone company (now) based in Dallas that paid it's new hires below 80k! Well, that's when they hired captains. Now that they have ********************e on their "surplus" pilots and hired co-pilots off the street, God only knows the package! Heeeeey, hang in there, in 18 years you can be at 95k base!) and LD in a crosswind, gusty situation in a Falcon was just fine. I believe his point was about precision in the landing that you can't get in a Falcon because of the "neutral" aileron.

I fly a Challenger 850 (a low paying corporate regional jet to you) that is a joy to fly in a strong, gusty crosswind compared to the Falcon 50ex.

You will be happy to know that I earn a great living (mostly tax free) and since I don't sweat NY/North East repressive state tax (God bless Texas!) the take home is even better. Keep clinging to that KTEB lifestyle! Sounds like a hoot!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I am quoting this post only cause all of them would not fit. I find your posts to LD dismissive, condecending and disrespecful.

You impune his skills and claim that he does not know how to land a "true" jet in a crosswind. I have had the pleasure of flying with LD in a Falcon (For a well known phone company (now) based in Dallas that paid it's new hires below 80k! Well, that's when they hired captains. Now that they have ********************e on their "surplus" pilots and hired co-pilots off the street, God only knows the package! Heeeeey, hang in there, in 18 years you can be at 95k base!) and LD in a crosswind, gusty situation in a Falcon was just fine. I believe his point was about precision in the landing that you can't get in a Falcon because of the "neutral" aileron.

I fly a Challenger 850 (a low paying corporate regional jet to you) that is a joy to fly in a strong, gusty crosswind compared to the Falcon 50ex.

You will be happy to know that I earn a great living (mostly tax free) and since I don't sweat NY/North East repressive state tax (God bless Texas!) the take home is even better. Keep clinging to that KTEB lifestyle! Sounds like a hoot!

Guys lets stick to the facts.....

You both talk about those superior skills you know RJ pilots have, but:

You were both limited to 20kt crosswinds
You both admit you had difficulty landing a Falcon in the wind
You both made less than 80K/yr
You were both canned as soon as the opportunity was avail.

2 years later one has found Jesus and is flying a 152, one is doing contract RJ work in Asia. HEY, whatever pays the bills or floats your boat guys, nobody cares....but 99.9% of us who have been to Asia or the Mideast know that nobody goes there by choice. I know, I know, you are "living the life" and none of the above were YOUR fault, its was terrible management or a poorly designed Falcon..we know.....

Hey (or yeeeeahhhhh as you say to each other?) at least its not Teterboro! God Bless Texas, sounds like a really great place to make a living, even if you have to do it from Singapore.

"precision landing due to the neutral aileron".....WHAT!??? I have a few thousand hours in Falcons and really have no f'n idea what you are talking about!......it lands no different than any jet I have ever flown....and lucky me my employer lets me make my own decisions as to what wind I can handle! Did all your pilots have the 20kt training wheels on, or just the RJ kids?

I know of no other Falcon pilots who have ever had "manufacturer defect" trouble with crosswinds...:laugh:...ditto for Global, Gulfstream, Hawker, Learjet pilots etc etc....then again guys, I guess you get what you pay for?

And please! - Disrespectful to LegacyDriver? He knows I have always held him in very high regard (minus his xwind technique) and I really hope he looks me up when he does his first solo x-country up to KTEB.. Beers are on me, no doubt!

 

[NCherches]

...This thread is getting pretty good. Don't make fun of my Bravo please!

 

[LegacyDriver]

"precision landing due to the neutral aileron".....WHAT!??? I have a few thousand hours in Falcons and really have no f'n idea what you are talking about!......it lands no different than any jet I have ever flown....

Cuz you've never flown a *REAL* airplane.

Duh.

It does *NOT* land like an EMB in a crosswind. Not even close. You can land an EMB any way you want in a x-wind: wing down , wing level, whatever. In a Falcon you basically get wing level and take what you get (or just a baby bit of bank to help with some differential thrust thrown in for fun if you want). That's it. You will reach the x-wind limit in a 50 before you will in the 145 by a CONSDIERABLE margin. But that's no surprise considering the EMB has about five times the rudder and more than double the wing clearance.

The Falcon lands like sh*t compared to the Legacy and that's just a fact of life. When I first flew the Falcon after many thousands of hours in Embraers I was like, "What the hell kind of dinky assed toy is this?" Yes, I had to "learn" the arplane and I got to be good at X-Wind landings in it, but it isn't even close to as good as the EMB in that department (I guarantee that even you would agree with me if you ever had the chance to fly an EMB) , nor is it particularly intuitive IMHO based on how I learned to fly. Then again, I can land in stiffer crosswinds than anyone I know be it a 152 or a 145. Maybe the Embraer spoiled me and that's fine. But you're delusional if you think the Falcon is the equal of any RJ (or even a Gulfstream for that matter) in a crosswind.

When I was in groundschool crosswind technique for the Falcon was a constant topic of conversation and the instructors made a fair point to scare the hell out of everyone about bank angle. The Citation X doesn't land like an EMB either. Bank that sucker and you scrape it. Simple as that... Maybe you are just weird (or you are lying your a** off about your "skillz").

I know of no other Falcon pilots who have ever had "manufacturer defect" trouble with crosswinds...

Sure.... That's why when the 50 came out they had to add rudder for the EX and why when the 7X came out they had to do the same. Whatever dude.

And please! - Disrespectful to LegacyDriver? He knows I have always held him in very high regard (minus his xwind technique) and I really hope he looks me up when he does his first solo x-country up to KTEB.. Beers are on me, no doubt!

Not always you d*chebag. You loved hating my guts for many years.

And I will take you up on that offer if I'm ever in KTEB. Guaranteed. But no cameras. I don't want any physical evidence that we are friends please.

 

[NCherches]

I know a guy who slips jets to loose airspeed. It was exciting-never seen that before.

 

[rumrnr78]

Guys lets stick to the facts.....

You both talk about those superior skills you know RJ pilots have, but:

You were both limited to 20kt crosswinds
You both admit you had difficulty landing a Falcon in the wind
You both made less than 80K/yr
You were both canned as soon as the opportunity was avail.

2 years later one has found Jesus and is flying a 152, one is doing contract RJ work in Asia. HEY, whatever pays the bills or floats your boat guys, nobody cares....but 99.9% of us who have been to Asia or the Mideast know that nobody goes there by choice. I know, I know, you are "living the life" and none of the above were YOUR fault, its was terrible management or a poorly designed Falcon..we know.....

Hey (or yeeeeahhhhh as you say to each other?) at least its not Teterboro! God Bless Texas, sounds like a really great place to make a living, even if you have to do it from Singapore.

"precision landing due to the neutral aileron".....WHAT!??? I have a few thousand hours in Falcons and really have no f'n idea what you are talking about!......it lands no different than any jet I have ever flown....and lucky me my employer lets me make my own decisions as to what wind I can handle! Did all your pilots have the 20kt training wheels on, or just the RJ kids?

I know of no other Falcon pilots who have ever had "manufacturer defect" trouble with crosswinds...:laugh:...ditto for Global, Gulfstream, Hawker, Learjet pilots etc etc....then again guys, I guess you get what you pay for?

And please! - Disrespectful to LegacyDriver? He knows I have always held him in very high regard (minus his xwind technique) and I really hope he looks me up when he does his first solo x-country up to KTEB.. Beers are on me, no doubt!

So now your gonna attack me as well? And your "facts" are way off. The only thing accurate about your post is that we both made less than 80k our first year. After our second year it went a little above that. But, far from the pay averages you were posting. There was bonus and stock but I was just addressing the base pay. I wish the job paid the salary you were quoting.

As to the layoffs, yes it happened to 19 pilots at our company. Nobody with 2 years seniority was gonna be kept on property.

Living overseas? Yes, at first it was not my first choice but my Wife, Golden Retriever and I have embraced the expat lifestyle. Try living in a creditor nation! It is a pleasant change. If I do get homesick I turn on the Fox News (with no commercials!) to see how that embarassment of an administration is running our country and it quickly goes away.

I love flying internationally. The closest I probably would have gotten to overseas flying at my last company would be flying the airplane to Anchorage for the next crew to take to Asia.

Off to Europe next week where I hope to see another phone company castaway, CRJCA in Prague.

But, now it's off to the pub for an ice cold Carlsberg. Not sure how they cornered the market but it is all the rage in Asia.

Cheers-

Rum

 

[Freight Dog]

Rum, you've been around long enough to know that there are super pilots out there who have to brag about their compensation, superior skill, and let everyone know that they're the best of the best, the ace-of-the-base. What they don't tell you is that all this bragging and superiority they're trying to project is usually the result of compensating for something else, usually it's the short-shriveled-and-inadequate problem that they're trying overcompensate for... know what I mean?

So, have a chuckle... and get a cold one!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Yeeeeahhh Rum,

FD is right on.


<------- Have a chuckle and a cold one on me also!

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Real airplanes have leading edge devices.

 

[rice]

Rum, you've been around long enough to know that there are super pilots out there who have to brag about their compensation, superior skill, and let everyone know that they're the best of the best, the ace-of-the-base. What they don't tell you is that all this bragging and superiority they're trying to project is usually the result of compensating for something else, usually it's the short-shriveled-and-inadequate problem that they're trying overcompensate for... know what I mean?

So, have a chuckle... and get a cold one!

Are you implying that G200 has a "little wanker"? :laugh:
Must be why his freaking watch is so damn big!!!!!!!
I will tell you that he is in fact "the ace-of-the-base" especially on a Sea-Doo!!!!!!

 

[Freight Dog]

I'm not implying anything about G200... just making a general statement and trying to lighten up the mood.

 

[Floyd94]

Real airplanes have leading edge devices.

No doubt, you won't see the barbie jet blasting out of Aspen any time soon. Check the 2nd segment climb gradients on the ERJ and get back to me...

 

[BoilerUP]

Embraer's website shows the Legacy 650 can depart Aspen with 800lb payload at "85% annual takeoff temperature and 85% annual winds" and hit just about any city in North America...with range as far as Martinique, Bogota or Narsarsuaq @ that payload & LRC.

Not sure how that compares to the (current) Legacy 600...but not too bad for a reformed regional jet.

 

[brokeflyer]

The ONLY bright side I can see to this gig is that MAYBE they desire to find the right fit at the company and not just hire any ol' already typed regional FO. This gives them a chance to minimize their risk to do so rather than become a revolving door.

But I'm with G200, at the VERY least they should be paying for the type and ask you to sign one of those bogus traning agreements. Problem is, they too know it's bogus and if you leave they'll never get their money.

if they pay a livable wage, they wont have that problem. They dont teach that in management fcks employees 101

 

[Floyd94]

Embraer's website shows the Legacy 650 can depart Aspen with 800lb payload at "85% annual takeoff temperature and 85% annual winds" and hit just about any city in North America...with range as far as Martinique, Bogota or Narsarsuaq @ that payload & LRC.

Not sure how that compares to the (current) Legacy 600...but not too bad for a reformed regional jet.

A definate improvement over the standard EMB145... and if it sheds one at V1 in the summer?