need help on salary for FO on Legacy

[LXApilot]

I had a job interview to fly a Legacy as a Captain back in early 2009 ... owner really seemed like he liked me and was enthusiastic about hiring me. The last part of our conversation revolved around pay. He asked me what I would want to fly the airplane and be their Chief Pilot (both -91 and -135 flying around 250-300 hours per year)... I said that I'd agree to $108k to start with a sliding 3 year scale to top out at $120k. I thought that was low-balling. His eyes got as big as saucers and he sort of nervously thanked me for coming in, we'd be in touch, etc. I never heard back from them. I later found out that the previous Captain/Chief Pilot had been flying the airplane for about $80k! WHOA! Most guys flying Captain on the CE-500 and BE-400 are making that. I was so ashamed that someone had lowered the bar that significantly.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I had a job interview to fly a Legacy as a Captain back in early 2009 ... owner really seemed like he liked me and was enthusiastic about hiring me. The last part of our conversation revolved around pay. He asked me what I would want to fly the airplane and be their Chief Pilot (both -91 and -135 flying around 250-300 hours per year)... I said that I'd agree to $108k to start with a sliding 3 year scale to top out at $120k. I thought that was low-balling. His eyes got as big as saucers and he sort of nervously thanked me for coming in, we'd be in touch, etc. I never heard back from them. I later found out that the previous Captain/Chief Pilot had been flying the airplane for about $80k! WHOA! Most guys flying Captain on the CE-500 and BE-400 are making that. I was so ashamed that someone had lowered the bar that significantly.

Shee-it grasshopper........when I got hired as a Legacy CA I was making $53K a year and thought I was a god.

THEY paid for my recurrent, too. :laugh:

I made about $77K at one point..........which was about ten grand more than I made as Falcone Pendjo Captain.

It ain't the plane. It's the market.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Driving RJs paid mid-40s at the time...

I think a lot of it has to do with the market the airplane works in. It is used a lot as a charter airplane and the margins for charter outfits are lower than they are for other segments. But then again, all these high paying jobs are still a myth to me. When I was working for the largest Falcon operator in the US I didn't even break $80K a year.

OTOH, I have a lot of friends flying EMBs making well over $100K a year... I dunno what G200 makes but my Legacy friends make more than my Falcon friends. It's just hit or miss IMHO.

 

[rumrnr78]

Driving RJs paid mid-40s at the time...

I think a lot of it has to do with the market the airplane works in. It is used a lot as a charter airplane and the margins for charter outfits are lower than they are for other segments. But then again, all these high paying jobs are still a myth to me. When I was working for the largest Falcon operator in the US I didn't even break $80K a year.

OTOH, I have a lot of friends flying EMBs making well over $100K a year... I dunno what G200 makes but my Legacy friends make more than my Falcon friends. It's just hit or miss IMHO.

All true, but don't forget LD that the "largest" Falcon operator also provided stock, bonus and the security of a Fortune 5 company. Wait a tick, that last one didn't work out for us!

Cheers from Singapore! Rum

P.S. Heeeeey!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Driving RJs paid mid-40s at the time...

I think a lot of it has to do with the market the airplane works in. It is used a lot as a charter airplane and the margins for charter outfits are lower than they are for other segments. But then again, all these high paying jobs are still a myth to me. When I was working for the largest Falcon operator in the US I didn't even break $80K a year.

OTOH, I have a lot of friends flying EMBs making well over $100K a year... I dunno what G200 makes but my Legacy friends make more than my Falcon friends. It's just hit or miss IMHO.

Ld, I imagine we wouldn't start a brand new guy on our Falcon at less than 140K, plus bonus.

Where the F do your Falcon friends work? The lower end of the Falcon market that I know is 110-120k range....and yes, thats untyped guys hired in the last few months at lower paying operations.

I think you need to get over your xwind landing weaknesses and "embrace" Lol the only rating you have that may get you off welfare....

 

[LegacyDriver]

Ld, I imagine we wouldn't start a brand new guy on our Falcon at less than 140K, plus bonus.

Where the F do your Falcon friends work? The lower end of the Falcon market that I know is 110-120k range....and yes, thats untyped guys hired in the last few months at lower paying operations.

No, no, no, G. The lower end of the market you "know" is not what the market pays.

I know people driving 900s (EASy and EX) for a lot less than $100K a year. Perhaps you should define what you see as the "Falcon Market" because it's not what I'm seeing.

Who the hell is hiring untyped anybody these days any way? I have a type. Shook hands with the owner and the DO for a Falcon gig, both of whom said I was "perfect for the position" and then nothing... Didn't pay $100K a year but...

I think you need to get over your xwind landing weaknesses and "embrace" Lol the only rating you have that may get you off welfare....

If I had gone to the sandbox when I had the chance I'd be a millionaire by now (on an EMB *not* a Falcon, btw).

I ain't got no landing weaknesses, b*tch. I'm just saying your Frogjet can't compete with the Embraer--landing, reliability, or looks...and apparently pay, too.

 

[LegacyDriver]

All true, but don't forget LD that the "largest" Falcon operator also provided stock, bonus and the security of a Fortune 5 company. Wait a tick, that last one didn't work out for us!

Cheers from Singapore! Rum

P.S. Heeeeey!

Maybe it should have been called an "(un)Fortune(ate)" [sic] whatever...

Bonus yeah but still doesn't even meet the so-called "minimum Falcon pilot market value." (Whatever!) Did you see the last anemic one? I won't look free money in the mouth but I still would make more money flying an EMB for someone like Clay Lacy than I did flying anything at the Death Star.

I think G200 has been hitting the nippy bottle or something. $100K+ for a newhire? Never seen it other than in Californication.......and the taxes and cost of living offset the nominal dollar value.

 

[spxdriver]

No, no, no, G. The lower end of the market you "know" is not what the market pays.

I know people driving 900s (EASy and EX) for a lot less than $100K a year. Perhaps you should define what you see as the "Falcon Market" because it's not what I'm seeing.

Who the hell is hiring untyped anybody these days any way? I have a type. Shook hands with the owner and the DO for a Falcon gig, both of whom said I was "perfect for the position" and then nothing... Didn't pay $100K a year but...

Yes, yes yes, L. The lower end of the market he "knows" is what the market pays. Hell, I know of a Falcon 20 operator that pays $108k to start. If you know of someone flying a 900 for "a lot less than $100k a year," they shorted themselves.

I know of a SoCal operator that would hire someone untyped right now, fwiw.

I ain't got no landing weaknesses, b*tch. I'm just saying your Frogjet can't compete with the Embraer--landing, reliability, or looks...and apparently pay, too.

I can't comment about reliability, or landings, but do you really think the Embraer is better looking than a Falcon? To me, the EMB 135/145 looks like some plastic toy airplane you'd buy at K-Mart on a blue light special. There are absolutely ZERO appealing lines on a Legacy. On the other hand, a Falcon looks sleek, fast, and well paying.

 

[400A]

If it should be the one based in the Atlanta area, it is for sale. Might be the reason he wants someone else to pay for the training. Payback would only be there if the job was. If you have only flown a 152 like your profile says I believe that might be a little over your head.

Legacy Driver: Please tell me that you are exploring every option you can to be a demo pilot for the Legacy's. Anyone with that sort of passion for a product should explore that option. (Not intended as a jab)

 

[Gulfstream 200]

LD,

I'm not defending the market, just saying what it is. I know of no 900ex/Easy pilots working for under 100K - not even close. And yes, I know if non-typed guys hired into Falcons recently at 100k+ as SICs...that honestly the market at semi-quality jobs...and I personally wouldn't shop anything but - no matter what the market is.

While I don't know where you are shopping, Im talking all major metro areas. SoCal, NY, etc...Is it a hard market? I hear it is...but I have not seen or heard of any low-balling by quality operations. I cant claim to hang with the brightest crowd (lol) but Falcon/Gulfstream/Global guys are not doing too bad around me. I have quite a few friends who fly Falcons (50/900/Easy/7X) and their pay ranges from 115K-200K+....80K? C'mon!!

I cant speak for Legacy pilots. There is no Legacys near me, that I know of.

But really, dont even try to lump in the few low ball, work for anything airline types (EMB/BBJ) to the rest of the business. You might find a 55yr old furloughed airline 737 Captain for 75K, and an EMB regional guy who feels he hit the lotto for 50K and a nice hotel....but thats not reality in the rest of the corporate world, even in a $hitty market....Thank God.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Yes, yes yes, L. The lower end of the market he "knows" is what the market pays. Hell, I know of a Falcon 20 operator that pays $108k to start. If you know of someone flying a 900 for "a lot less than $100k a year," they shorted themselves.

That's what the position pays. I also know of an operator getting a 7X shortly and they pay their 900 drivers less than $80K a year to start. Sorry guys, but you are living in a dream world.

Again, define "Falcon Market."

I know of a SoCal operator that would hire someone untyped right now, fwiw.

Give them my number then.

I can't comment about reliability, or landings, but do you really think the Embraer is better looking than a Falcon?

No contest. Even the 7X looks like something designed in 1962... But as for the older models... Who uses 43 cockpit windows these days? Seriously. Even Hawker/Beech/Raytheon updated that on their newer year models.

To me, the EMB 135/145 looks like some plastic toy airplane you'd buy at K-Mart on a blue light special. There are absolutely ZERO appealing lines on a Legacy. On the other hand, a Falcon looks sleek, fast, and well paying.

That's what you think. I think the Legacy has beautiful lines. Way better than any Dassault other than the Rafale.

Without a doubt the Legacy is better looking with all the fairings and the winglets esp compared to the ERJ, DA-50, or DA-900. To each their own. Unless it's Russian it's not really ugly if it is a jet any way.

 

[LegacyDriver]

If it should be the one based in the Atlanta area, it is for sale. Might be the reason he wants someone else to pay for the training. Payback would only be there if the job was. If you have only flown a 152 like your profile says I believe that might be a little over your head.

Legacy Driver: Please tell me that you are exploring every option you can to be a demo pilot for the Legacy's. Anyone with that sort of passion for a product should explore that option. (Not intended as a jab)

Thanks 400. No jab taken. You are dead right about that Atlanta EMB. I think that is Lou Sobh's (Sohb?) airplane isn't it? There's also DP up for sale out of Aitken, SC I think it was...

Actually I was a demo pilot (Embraer often chartered my airplane when they didn't have one of their teams available). Helped sell a lot of them back when they were first getting started (and not a jab, but probably 3/4 of our clients moved out of Falcons and Hawkers into the EMB--the feedback I got exclusively positive...including from a G-String crew that just couldn't stomach the idea of moving to a Legacy). I told them what the airplane could do and not do and that it was a good airplane... Nobody ever said I lied to them.

 

[LegacyDriver]

LD,

I'm not defending the market, just saying what it is. I know of no 900ex/Easy pilots working for under 100K - not even close. And yes, I know if non-typed guys hired into Falcons recently at 100k+ as SICs...that honestly the market at semi-quality jobs...and I personally wouldn't shop anything but - no matter what the market is.

I know four that were hired under $80K into 900s (two to the EX two to the EASy). Two are over $90K now, two are not. The Death Star just hired two and I bet they make sub-$70K a year.

And if you don't include San Antonio (#7 US City) and Dallas Metroplex then you are missing "major markets."

While I don't know where you are shopping, Im talking all major metro areas. SoCal, NY, etc...Is it a hard market? I hear it is...but I have not seen or heard of any low-balling by quality operations. I cant claim to hang with the brightest crowd (lol) but Falcon/Gulfstream/Global guys are not doing too bad around me. I have quite a few friends who fly Falcons (50/900/Easy/7X) and their pay ranges from 115K-200K+....80K? C'mon!!

I cant speak for Legacy pilots. There is no Legacys near me, that I know of.

Obviously then you are only looking at the "Corporate" market and not the fractional or charter (where most EMBs reside). That said, the Falcon operators I refer to (Blue Death Globe aside) one is a tech company and one is a charter outfit both in Texas. Throw in another Falcon charter outfit into the mix and I can probably add another six Falcon drivers (50EX) under $80K.

The last five guys I know who got hired into the Legacy all started at $110K or more, three in So Cal (owner/charter managed airplane) and two out west somewhere else (owner only).

The only other operator I know of who is even hiring anyone into EMBs was ADI and they're notorious for low-balling people. I think they start on the 135 Shuttle at $40K a year or something. I even applied for that gig, but that's the same pay as the Falcon 20 outfit I applied for in Texas and I preferred the equipment. Didn't get either job.

Whatever. I'm so non-current now that I'll probably never get a job.

But really, dont even try to lump in the few low ball, work for anything airline types (EMB/BBJ) to the rest of the business. You might find a 55yr old furloughed airline 737 Captain for 75K, and an EMB regional guy who feels he hit the lotto for 50K and a nice hotel....but thats not reality in the rest of the corporate world, even in a $hitty market....Thank God.

Any way, no ERJ Captain is going to take a job now for $50K a year. He's gonna' make a lot more than that on the 145 with a pretty good schedule. Ten years ago an $8K raise to $55K a year with a great schedule was a jackpot. Not now. (Better than unemployment though. I'm staring at $30K a year mowing lawns, teaching college, or delivering pizza and thinking, "That wouldn't be too bad.")

I love you guys, but you're wrong on this one.

 

[Freight Dog]

But really, dont even try to lump in the few low ball, work for anything airline types (EMB/BBJ) to the rest of the business. You might find a 55yr old furloughed airline 737 Captain for 75K, and an EMB regional guy who feels he hit the lotto for 50K and a nice hotel....but thats not reality in the rest of the corporate world, even in a $hitty market....Thank God.

Easy there, Tiger... not all of us flying "airline types" in the corporate world make sh*t money. Some of us are making a much nicer living than a number of Gulfstream/Falcon/Bombardier drivers.

Just sayin'...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Easy there, Tiger... not all of us flying "airline types" in the corporate world make sh*t money. Some of us are making a much nicer living than a number of Gulfstream/Falcon/Bombardier drivers.

Just sayin'...

Thats why I said a "few" tiger....and yeah, I do know your story.

"just sayin'.."