Need help finding reg

[bomberbubba]

anyone know where I would find information stating that it is allowable to have the textual description of an approach proceedure to shoot the approach? vs. the jeppchart. I have looked through everything I can think of. Thanks to who ever can give me the answer!

 

[phishn@daves]

anyone know where I would find information stating that it is allowable to have the textual description of an approach proceedure to shoot the approach? vs. the jeppchart. I have looked through everything I can think of. Thanks to who ever can give me the answer!

The only textual description that you can use for anything, as I remember is for a SID or a STAR. I might be wrong but, then again, I haven't seen an FAR/AIM in a long time.

Good luck.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Heck, other than for Part 121, 125,135 and Part 91, Subpart F or K flights, you won't won't even find a reg that says that you need any charts to begin with.

In those operations, however, the regs do specify a requirement for the pertinent "charts" and I doubt that something that is not a "chart" qualifies.

 

[nosehair]

91.175(a) says "...shall use a standard instrument approach procedure prescribed for the airport in part 97..."

Looking at part 97, subpart B...
97.10 "..described on FAA Form 3139..."

"Based on the information contained on FAA Form 3139, SIAP's are portrayed on charts prepared for use of pilots..."

Looks like you can use the FAA Form 3139 to qualify for an official SIAP.

 

[midlifeflyer]

hey nosehair, ever seen a 3139? I've been looking for a sample.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

Pshn@Daves is correct. The only published text which can be "declined" is a STAR or SID if you do not have the printed text or textual description. (you can file a flight plan and stipulate no STAR/SID)Approach plates are a different ball of wax for obvious reasons... Good Luck

 

[Seadogrun]

Pshn@Daves is correct. The only published text which can be "declined" is a STAR or SID if you do not have the printed text or textual description. (you can file a flight plan and stipulate no STAR/SID)Approach plates are a different ball of wax for obvious reasons... Good Luck

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but are you saying you can't decline an approach if you don't want to do it? What happens when you're given a clearance for an approach that you are not equiped? Or an approach that, opps, you lost the chart? I believe you can decline clearaces that you are unable to safely accept. You also aren't required to accept a clearance given by clearace delivery. There are times that I will file a route for weather and clearace gives me the preferred route. I respectfully decline and ask for the route that I filesd or something that would keep me out of weather.

 

[nosehair]

Bubba said nothing about a sid or star or declining an approach.

I think he asked if a textural description of an approach procedure is acceptable to use instead of the commonly used approach charts.

Actually, he asked for a regulation to that effect.

Regulations, gentlemen, not opinions or sidebars.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

I knew this would happen...being to general. The regs state; all required equipment must be operational for the desired approach/ procedure. Also, they state you "should" have all required documents, navigational materials and information necessary to complete a particular flight..etc. I would surmise that if you tried to shoot an approach from a non-approved text...such as a piece of paper with crayon on it, you would not be "legal". My point on the STAR/ SID was, you can file and state you do not want either do to not having a textual description. The AIM only addresses STAR/ SID's in terms of "textual description...however "approach Plate" is not addressed. I know, the AIM is only advisory. I refer to my first point of combining two FAR's to determine if a required "approach" plate is required. Not only have I killed the horse, but I've beatin it to a bloody pulp. Any advice would be appreciated...please be kind..

Oh yeah...textual description means "a copy of or written intsructions about" an approved source such as JEPS, NOS, LIDO

 

[JAFI]

Nosehair, you may want to check the date on your regs. This is what I pulled up today:

Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 97—STANDARD INSTRUMENT PROCEDURES


Subpart B—Procedures
Editorial Note: The procedures set forth in this
subpart were formerly carried as §§609.100 through
609.500 of this title and were transferred to part 97
as §§97.11 through 97.19, respectively, but are not
carried in the Code of Federal Regulations. ForFederal
Registercitations affecting these procedures, see the
List of CFR Sections Affected, which appears in the
Finding Aids section of the printed volume and on GPO Access.


§ 97.10 [Reserved]


--- 97.10 now is now "reserved" and contains no text......

 

[phishn@daves]

Bubba said nothing about a sid or star or declining an approach.

I think he asked if a textural description of an approach procedure is acceptable to use instead of the commonly used approach charts.

Actually, he asked for a regulation to that effect.

Regulations, gentlemen, not opinions or sidebars.

Okay gentlemen, He's a flight Instructor. He must know what everyone is thinking.

Easy guy, we were giving him what we knew. I don't believe there were any "sidebars" given, just thoughts that related to the same question.

But reading some of your other post's makes me think you don't know what the he!! you are talking about anyway.................and the Corporate/Airline guy's don't belong on "your" forum.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I The regs state... Also, they state you "should" have all required ... navigational materials ... necessary to complete a particular flight..etc.

Where? I know where it says that for Part 121, 125,135 and Subparts F and K of Part 91, but where do the regs say that for a run of the mill Part 91 flight?

And violating a "should" is not illegal anyway.

 

[AC560]

Where? I know where it says that for Part 121, 125,135 and Subparts F and K of Part 91, but where do the regs say that for a run of the mill Part 91 flight?

There is nothing for a run of the mill part 91 flight involving charts other then 91.13.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Exactly.I was wondering what reg phishin was referring to in his post.

 

[phishn@daves]

Exactly.I was wondering what reg phishin was referring to in his post.

If you re-read the ACTUAL question, he is looking for INFORMATION on if it is or is not allowable to shoot an approach having only the textual description.

I think the info I gave him was what he was looking for, though I told him I don't know where it specifically states as such in the Regs.

 

[midlifeflyer]

If you re-read the ACTUAL question, he is looking for INFORMATION on if it is or is not allowable to shoot an approach having only the textual description.

I think the info I gave him was what he was looking for, though I told him I don't know where it specifically states as such in the Regs.

I'll take a WAG that, given the title of the thread, if he wasn't looking for a reg, when he asked for information he was looking for an AIM reference, AC, NTSB case, FAA Legal Opinion or somehting else a bit more solid solid that "some guy on the Internet said..."

So do you have a reference for your opinion or did you just make it up?

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

Hey...How about new aircraft with EFB's and MFD's which have the approach plates electronically. If anyone of the systems are MEL'd, you must have a textual, printed copy of the approach plates for the Destiation, Alternates,...etc...per the FAA and op specs..I know, this still does'nt answer the original question....but it is required data.

 

[phishn@daves]

I'll take a WAG that, given the title of the thread, if he wasn't looking for a reg, when he asked for information he was looking for an AIM reference, AC, NTSB case, FAA Legal Opinion or somehting else a bit more solid solid that "some guy on the Internet said..."

So do you have a reference for your opinion or did you just make it up?

Well, the info I had was from what I had remembered as a FI, now that I looked it up, it seems the only textual form you can have is for a SID only. FAA.org

However, the original poster has not replied since, strange?