Need advice on what to get..

[Ill Mitch]

Had this question posed to me, and I am following up on it because it may lead to something.

Anyway, the guy wants something that can go from the San Francisco Bay Area tp Austin, TX and also from SFO area to Hawaii. He is looking for used and around the 7-8 million mark (obviously, less is "better" according to him. Any ideas on what is out there that can do this? Thanks.

 

[banned username 2]

Had this question posed to me, and I am following up on it because it may lead to something.

Anyway, the guy wants something that can go from the San Francisco Bay Area tp Austin, TX and also from SFO area to Hawaii. He is looking for used and around the 7-8 million mark (obviously, less is "better" according to him. Any ideas on what is out there that can do this? Thanks.

Hawaii is the hard part there...

He could get an old G-II or even a G-III for that money, but the operating costs would probably kill him...

A used Falcon 50 would easily do the trick, and be much more efficient than the G series, but for a clean used one he would probably be looking closer to $10M...

An older Challenger might do the trick, you can pick up an older Challenger 600 for something in the $6M range, however not sure about the "wet footprint" factor in that going to Hawaii...

 

[Ill Mitch]

Hawaii is the hard part there...

He could get an old G-II or even a G-III for that money, but the operating costs would probably kill him...

A used Falcon 50 would easily do the trick, and be much more efficient than the G series, but for a clean used one he would probably be looking closer to $10M...

An older Challenger might do the trick, you can pick up an older Challenger 600 for something in the $6M range, however not sure about the "wet footprint" factor in that going to Hawaii...

Thanks,

I was thinking either the Falcon 50 or older Challenger. Was thinking even an Astra...on a good day it will do Hawaii as long as the winds aren't too bad. Wonder if an older Challenger is the same. Guess I can start with these three jets and go from there.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Lear 36?

 

[some_dude]

With the ZR Lite mod!

Of course, if this guy wants to carry any bags, he'll be out of luck. But who needs bags?

Seriously, though, the airplane for this job is the Falcon 50 or the G-III.

Lear 36?

 

[Ill Mitch]

With the ZR Lite mod!

Of course, if this guy wants to carry any bags, he'll be out of luck. But who needs bags?

Seriously, though, the airplane for this job is the Falcon 50 or the G-III.

Actually brought up the Lear 36, but he doesn't like Lears because he thinks they are dangerous.

What about a JetStar II? Any thoughts?

 

[some_dude]

I think JetStars are cool, personally. People I know who have flown them have nothing but good things to say.

One thing I have heard is that there is a HUGE difference between a good JetStar and a bad JetStar, from a maintenance point of view. Also, I vaguely recall that they are marginal Hawaii aircraft, if they are capable of it at all.

Actually brought up the Lear 36, but he doesn't like Lears because he thinks they are dangerous.

What about a JetStar II? Any thoughts?

 

[Ill Mitch]

I think JetStars are cool, personally. People I know who have flown them have nothing but good things to say.

One thing I have heard is that there is a HUGE difference between a good JetStar and a bad JetStar, from a maintenance point of view. Also, I vaguely recall that they are marginal Hawaii aircraft, if they are capable of it at all.

I know one person that flies a JetStar to Europe all the time, but there are more options if the gas gets low.
Supposedly they have a range of 2400NM, it is about 2100 NM from the Bay Area to PHNL. Hmm...I guess it would be like the Astra where the winds would have to be low in order to make it.
It would be neat if he got one of those tho. I wouldn't mind.

 

[Gatorman]

An older Challenger might do the trick, you can pick up an older Challenger 600 for something in the $6M range, however not sure about the "wet footprint" factor in that going to Hawaii...

Well, as I recall, I have not seen any 600's with a tail tank out there.

I'm no pilot and I could care less about how far a plane can fly, but I am pretty sure a 600 ain't gona do it. (I wouldn't try it any how)

Maybe one of those old GII's with the tip tanks. I think there is one or two of them out there.

If the ol' man wants to go to Hawaii, he will have to get up off of the wallet and pony up to a CL601 with the tail tank or a GIII

 

[Melon]

I know for a fact the 600 will do PHNL from the West Coast with IFR reserves and average winds. I would not get one though because prouduct support is not good on the 600 from what I hear.

I would say options are:
1. G-III
2. DA-50
3. Westwind II
4. Astra
5. G-IIB

Of these the Westwind is probably cheapest in terms of operating and purchase. I would go for the G-III then G-IIB. They are what first popped into mind when I read the initial question.

 

[Ill Mitch]

I know for a fact the 600 will do PHNL from the West Coast with IFR reserves and average winds. I would not get one though because prouduct support is not good on the 600 from what I hear.

I would say options are:
1. G-III
2. DA-50
3. Westwind II
4. Astra
5. G-IIB

Of these the Westwind is probably cheapest in terms of operating and purchase. I would go for the G-III then G-IIB. They are what first popped into mind when I read the initial question.

Thanks. Didn't even know the Westwind II could do it. Something else to throw into the hat.

I'm supposed to present him with stuff by the end of the week. We'll see what happens!

 

[Lead Sled]

Had this question posed to me, and I am following up on it because it may lead to something.

Anyway, the guy wants something that can go from the San Francisco Bay Area tp Austin, TX and also from SFO area to Hawaii. He is looking for used and around the 7-8 million mark (obviously, less is "better" according to him. Any ideas on what is out there that can do this? Thanks.

The big questions are how many people, how often, what is his operating budget and how long is he planning on owning the beast? You can't even have an intelligent conversation without knowing the above.

'Sled

 

[banned username 2]

Maybe one of those old GII's with the tip tanks. I think there is one or two of them out there.

Most of the G-IITT's have had their tip tanks removed and replaced with Aviation Partners winglets and actually increased their range... Those old tip tanks were so heavy and draggy that they pretty much negated the extra fuel they carried...

 

[Ill Mitch]

The big questions are how many people, how often, what is his operating budget and how long is he planning on owning the beast? You can't even have an intelligent conversation without knowing the above.

'Sled

1. One or two persons. Occasionally 3.
2. Two trips to Texas, one trip to Hawaii is what he wants
3. "He doesn't care". The guy is old and wants to have fun during his last years. He is worth about 100 million, plans to burn thru it and give the rest to the kids.
4. He plans on owning it until he dies. He has a 3-4 years left.

 

[G100driver]

1. One or two persons. Occasionally 3.
2. Two trips to Texas, one trip to Hawaii is what he wants
3. "He doesn't care". The guy is old and wants to have fun during his last years. He is worth about 100 million, plans to burn thru it and give the rest to the kids.
4. He plans on owning it until he dies. He has a 3-4 years left.

If the guy does not have long to live he will not want to sit on the west coast for a few days .... maybe a week or more in the winter .... while the winds die down enough to go to HI. You really need an airplane with about 3000nm range to go to HI on regular basis.

He also does not want to sit around while a pile of junk (600, WW, JunkStar ect) sits in the shop because of a MX clitch you did not find until the engines started.

I have seen Astra's and Hawker 800XP's (even a couple of A's) out in HI. They can make it OK but not with out a lot of work and nail biting. We always charted a Falcon 50 to HI when we owned our Astra just for this reason. The airplane was not designed to make the longest over water flight in the world.

Do the guy a favor tell him to get a Falcon 50 and fly it about 200 hours a year mininum. The 50 can do the mission every day and you will be flying the airplane enough to keep it out of the shop (and the crew current).

Sounds like the guy should really charter, however.

 

[Lead Sled]

If the guy does not have long to live he will not want to sit on the west coast for a few days .... maybe a week or more in the winter .... while the winds die down enough to go to HI. You really need an airplane with about 3000nm range to go to HI on regular basis.

He also does not want to sit around while a pile of junk (600, WW, JunkStar ect) sits in the shop because of a MX clitch you did not find until the engines started.

I have seen Astra's and Hawker 800XP's (even a couple of A's) out in HI. They can make it OK but not with out a lot of work and nail biting. We always charted a Falcon 50 to HI when we owned our Astra just for this reason. The airplane was not designed to make the longest over water flight in the world.

Do the guy a favor tell him to get a Falcon 50 and fly it about 200 hours a year mininum. The 50 can do the mission every day and you will be flying the airplane enough to keep it out of the shop (and the crew current).

Sounds like the guy should really charter, however.

What he said.

A G100/SPX will do Hawaii easier than a Astra Classic or SP, but you do have to watch the winds.

As much as I'm cringing as I'm typing this, if he were my friend, I'd hve him call Net Jets. What the heck, he's dying anyway.

'Sled

 

[Dangerkitty]

I would convince him that Lear's are not dangerous. (Where he gets that idea is beyond me.)

Then I would buy a Lear 60.

 

[G100driver]

I would convince him that Lear's are not dangerous. (Where he gets that idea is beyond me.)

Then I would buy a Lear 60.

Well going to HI in a 60 is not exactly not smart

 

[Ill Mitch]

If the guy does not have long to live he will not want to sit on the west coast for a few days .... maybe a week or more in the winter .... while the winds die down enough to go to HI. You really need an airplane with about 3000nm range to go to HI on regular basis.

He also does not want to sit around while a pile of junk (600, WW, JunkStar ect) sits in the shop because of a MX clitch you did not find until the engines started.

I have seen Astra's and Hawker 800XP's (even a couple of A's) out in HI. They can make it OK but not with out a lot of work and nail biting. We always charted a Falcon 50 to HI when we owned our Astra just for this reason. The airplane was not designed to make the longest over water flight in the world.

Do the guy a favor tell him to get a Falcon 50 and fly it about 200 hours a year mininum. The 50 can do the mission every day and you will be flying the airplane enough to keep it out of the shop (and the crew current).

Sounds like the guy should really charter, however.

I agree with the charter thing. In fact I have told him so. However, he wants HIS airplane with HIS interior, etc.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

Island in style

GIII or GII will do the mission in style and comfort but your operating costs will be around $4.3K/hr. Otherwise spend the xtra $ now and go with the DA50 with a much lower op cost.

Semper Per Diem

 

[Dangerkitty]

Well going to HI in a 60 is not exactly not smart

Why not? I went from Florida to the West Coast non stop all the time in a Lear 60. That is further than SFO - HNL.

 

[Lead Sled]

Why not? I went from Florida to the West Coast non stop all the time in a Lear 60. That is further than SFO - HNL.

The next time you're in Hawaii, take a look around and count the number of Lear 60s you see on the ramp there. It shouldn't take very long.

'Sled

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Why not? I went from Florida to the West Coast non stop all the time in a Lear 60. That is further than SFO - HNL.

few more places to land between FL-West coast!

Does a Lear 60 have wet footprint to Hawaii?

 

[Dangerkitty]

few more places to land between FL-West coast!

Does a Lear 60 have wet footprint to Hawaii?

Well now that you mention it I would imagine that the wet footprint is somewhat large in the 60. I guess you can also tell how many times I have flown to Hawaii. :0

 

[Dangerkitty]

Well going to HI in a 60 is not exactly not smart

Hey what a minute!! That statement you just made is a double negative. TonyC would be outraged!!

 

[G100driver]

Hey what a minute!! That statement you just made is a double negative. TonyC would be outraged!!

You are correct, my humble apologizes ... but hey I couldn't care less

 

[con-pilot]

Dollar for dollar the best bet is the Falcon 50, a used Falcon 50 with 3-D engines would be even better.

In my younger years I did fly Westwind IIs to Hawaii. Sometimes I would have to wait 2 to 4 days to get the winds to assure a dry footprint. When that happened the passengers usually took the airlines. I would not take the Westwind II to Hawaii now, just too marginal. Same with a Jetstar II or Jetstar 731.

I have flown a Falcon 50 around the world, literally, and the comfort factor of three engines over the Pacific Ocean (to paraphrase the TV commercial) is priceless.

PM me if you have any questions.