NBC Today show on East 8 Captains

[Phrogs4ever]

Simple answer...bingo early and often. You don't want to find yourself in the Northeast, holding, and running out of options. Put it on the ground somewhere and come up with plan b. Check your paycheck for overs.

 

[Dr. Rumack]

Raj,
Did you read my post? Phrogs actually hit it dead on. Well before safety becomes an issue you should be planning the divert. I agree completely that a pilot should be able to take extra fuel in the name of safety, when required. A PHX-LAS flight in the winter when there is not a cloud within 1000 miles probably does not require a bump. If a pilot takes more gas in that case it has nothing to do with safety. The gas spent taking the extra gas costs more than the gas spent on the very rare divert. If a pilot, hypothetically, took extra gas in that case it would be waste. Do you not see that sometimes pilots take gas when it is not required in part to piss the company off? Also in part to show their influence.
There are many reasons pilots take extra gas that are not safety related, I am sure you have seen some examples like taking extra gas to fly lower/faster to get home on a last leg of a trip. If that leg diverts (which is very safe) the crew's trip might be extended beyond a commuters take off time to get home. An annoyance to be sure but not a good reason economically to take extra gas and not at all related to safety.
IF, hypothetically, that is what the elite 8 were doing they should, hypothetically, have been brought in for training and certainly not broadcasting their irritation in the main stream press.

 

[rajflyboy]

If you have to cut corners on Fuel to survive? Where else are you cutting corners? Maintenance? Service to pax? Water, soft drinks, etc?

Loser Management Types need to take responsibility at some point!

Savings on carrying extra fuel are peanuts at best. Safety should be #1. I'd like to see a study that says otherwise.

 

[DCAA320]

....but you might just be a mama's boy!

and did she really say WTO?

Have some warm cookies and milk and we can get through this.

No lie no BS, Dad flew in from cali today, he said WTF, about the fuel also. He has a PhD and asked,, "why are you guys trying to scare passengers away."

 

[becket]

Why don't they just fire those ****************************** bags. Message sent, east caves...just like always,(loa 93)

 

[PHXFLYR]

Parker's intiminated by them, thats why.


PHXFLYR

 

[Turtle21]

Could it be their case has no merit and their only sympathy might come from stirring up public fears by waving the "safety" flag? I call bulls**t!!

I find it curious that a pilot would side with the company absent a formal accusation that is legitimately proved. Simulator training? For fuel planning? WTF?

If the company had something they could prove then the should have come out with it. They didn't.

 

[Turtle21]

A PHX-LAS flight in the winter when there is not a cloud within 1000 miles probably does not require a bump. If a pilot takes more gas in that case it has nothing to do with safety.

That is a great hypothetical and a very narrow set of circumstances.

The company allowing this case to spill into the media to make its case against the pilots smacks of an inability to prove their case in a legitimate forum were the accused pilots can have a fair shake.

If the company had proved their allegations against the pilots before they forced them to take simulator training for fuel planning, then the matter would be settled.

Frankly it appears the company couldn't prove it, perhaps because it is a very high standard to demonstrate that a captain is abusing his authority/responsibility when he determines takeoff fuel.

The company thought they would shoot one and convince a thousand. As one poster said, they should have just fired them. That would have worked out real great in the long run.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FWIW: Can anyone explain how you teach "fuel planning" in a simulator? Fuel planning is a classroom excercise refined with better and better computer modelling. The answer to rajflyboy's questions were all yes, even at the regional airline I used to fly for.

It clearly smacks of using training as punishment. The Company's allegation that they wanted to learn what the pilots were seeing also fails to pass the sniff test. The best source of information would be the Company's own records recieved via ACARS reports and trend monitoring.

 

[eaglesview]

FWIW: Can anyone explain how you teach "fuel planning" in a simulator? Fuel planning is a classroom excercise refined with better and better computer modelling. The answer to rajflyboy's questions were all yes, even at the regional airline I used to fly for.

It clearly smacks of using training as punishment. The Company's allegation that they wanted to learn what the pilots were seeing also fails to pass the sniff test. The best source of information would be the Company's own records recieved via ACARS reports and trend monitoring.

Pure intimidation. The whole thing is a bunch of crap. They should start adding more and every Captain should be doing it until the company knocks it off.

 

[waveflyer]

Every single one of you weak legacy types should have stood up and walked out the minute the pensions were stolen... I won't even talk about scope or b-scales

If stealing millions from each and EVERY pilot doesn't galvanize you -- management and everyone else knows you're all talk