NBC Today show on East 8 Captains

[relief tube]

the ad didn't get to its muddy point very well at all.
Reports made them sound like a bunch of pansies too.

Any viable business out there has to adapt with the times, and these 8 guys probably didn't want to change a thing. Probably senior as hell and if they waste a bunch of gas they don't care cuz they would be the last to get furloughed anyway.

 

[waveflyer]

anyone have a link to the ad?

 

[airlinepilot]

I was in the JS on a flight from BWI to CLT today. Capt said the union told the company that giving the 8 Capts required sims was wrong....union suggested they talk/council them etc. Union said that if they required them to have sims that the union would take it public. Sounds like the company called their bluff! Also sounds like the union tried to keep it in-house. Just what I was told. And, for what it's worth the east guy did a single engine taxi and didn't start the apu until just prior to push. Looked like they were trying to save fuel to me....

 

[clickclickboom]

I jumpseated recently and the captain got his fuel no problem,,, 2000 lbs to be exact

 

[Afraid to Fly]

And, for what it's worth the east guy did a single engine taxi and didn't start the apu until just prior to push. Looked like they were trying to save fuel to me....

Right...

I have, along with many others on here I am sure, sat in the congo line in LGA hundreds of times behind the fleet of USAirways Planes with all 'three' generators running.

Furthermore, Airways does a nice job of getting their numbers quickly at outstations.

 

[MK82Man]

GuppyWN – the reason you don’t understand is that you are a rational dude. A rational pilot group would have handled the issue inside the house, but the USAPA toads are anything but sane. They think by scaring the public, they can somehow get an edge with management … all they did was scare the public. Every passenger today is critical, and most of us are working to keep them coming back, but the USAPA kids just don’t see it that way, because … they are irrational.

TexasJet – It isn’t a last ditch effort, it is a no ditch effort. Rather than work to prevent furloughs or negotiate with management to lower flying hours across the board, they’d rather throw a new hand-grenade into the hopper. The airline is fighting for survival, but they want to stir up Captain Authority when it ain’t an issue. Here is the issue. I’m losing my job this Fall why some old East Coast dude can pretend it is 1986 and carry as much gas as he wants all the way to ATH or MAD. Those 8 guys should be fired for wasting resources that jeopardize the health of the carrier. We are on track to lose $1.6 Billion this year at the new US Airways. You are right when you say, the history of management and labor at US Air sucked … problem is that now we have the old-world East dudes in charge and they want to drag the new US Airways down by using old school tactics. If they drive away the public, management won’t need to negotiate a new contract because we won’t be in business.

DCAA320 – thanks for restoring my faith that a fighter pilots mom knows how to communicate. WTF indeed? Please have mama call USAPA leadership and give them her thoughts.

Anybody that believes this is about Captain’s Authority and Safety is grossly mislead. If you need extra gas because the conga-line is 30 deep, explain it and get it. But you can’t BS your way with for extra fuel all the time like these 8 clowns. USAPA looks silly with this ad. Ask yourself this question. How many pilots do you know that have been called by the chief pilot on a repetitive basis and questioned on why they keep adding fuel above what the dispatcher put on the release? When compared to their peers, they keep adding extra gas. It doesn’t take a Chief Pilot to figure out something ain’t right. So even after counseling by the Chief Pilot, they continue to do it. Fellas -- it ain’t rocket science. You are wasting money and jeopardizing some gate agent/reservation agent’s job by burning the resource up for no reason. The media isn’t anti-labor, they are just trying to figure out why UCRAPPER ran the AD in USA Today. Folks this ship is sinking and the leadership at UCRAP’sville is bringing management to their knees by running a paper ad. Yeah. Sure wish the wallflowers on the East would stand up and demand some accountability at our joint collective bargaining agent.

 

[Poahi]

..., but they want to stir up Captain Authority when it ain’t an issue. Here is the issue. I’m losing my job this Fall why some old East Coast dude can pretend it is 1986 and carry as much gas as he wants all the way to ATH or MAD. Those 8 guys should be fired for wasting resources that jeopardize the health of the carrier.

But you can’t BS your way with for extra fuel all the time like these 8 clowns. .

Airways isn't making that allegation. They are talking about boarding some extra fuel on some flights, some of the time which amounts to $80 per flight. If Airways goes BK over this, we're all doomed.

From a distance, this looks like east v. west bickering.

 

[rajflyboy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25715451#25715451

I'd say the media just handed these morons their a$$es.

Please Remind me never to ride on a Jet that you fly!

I have a couple simple questions for you?

Does Dispatch account for descending to a lower altitude earlier than normal ....... on a flight into KEWR ?

Does Dispatch account for sitting in line for 45 minutes waiting to takeoff?

Does Dispatch account for flying around Thunderstorms enroute to destination?

Is a Pilot Using Good Judgement if he wants to add some fuel to his aircraft?

Answer Please!

 

[ALGFLYR]

Rather than work to prevent furloughs or negotiate with management...

But USAPA has worked with management to prevent or reduce furloughs. The West contract has no language for voluntary leaves to reduce furloughs. When the company said 175 West furloughs, under the West contract - the 175 most junior hit the streets. USAPA negotiated with management so the West could exercise the VLOA clause in the East contract. Now West pilots can take a LOA, without losing seniority and be eligible for unemployment, and allow more junior pilots to stay on line. This was not aked for by management but was initiated by USAPA for the benefit the West pilots. It may not be a big thing to some, but for those that would have otherwise hit the streets, I bet they are thankful, if even just to themselves, that USAPA did this...

The airline is fighting for survival, but they want to stir up Captain Authority when it ain’t an issue.

The underlying issue here is not Captains authority. It is how management disregards our contract.

I have no doubt the company probably has data showing these pilots have higher than usual fuel burns. But I don't know the specifics of that data nor do I personally know any of these 8 pilots. It's funny that nobody else here has that knowledge either but starts calling tham names...

While I don't agree with the pilots that burn extra fuel just to get back at the company, as an Airbus FO in PHL, I don't see it. Almost every CA I fly with will single-engine taxi if there is a line-up to takeoff.

But again, THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE.

The company has singled out 8 pilots and scheduled them for training that is not FAA approved nor provided for in our contract. This is a discipline action. There are ways in place to deal with his type of issue, but the company refuses to go that route. They instead put these pilots careers on the line with an unknown training event that could threaten their job. USAPA tried to handle this in-house and under the protocols in place, but the company refused...

 

[PHXFLYR]

So this justifys them taking out an ad in response to these individuals getting called in to account for themselves? Sorry. I'm not buying it. 2 wrongs don't make it right,if you can consider management calling them in on the carpet a "wrong.". And don't kid yourself. The only 2 reasons they 'negotiated" EVLA for west piliots is it didn't cost them anything to do so;and they were hoping to get more of us to join there ill-conceived social experiment. Rest assured if Parkrers negotiating team asked them to give up something in return for EVLA's for the west, it would have never seen the light of day.


PHXFLYR

 

[eaglesview]

Please Remind me never to ride on a Jet that you fly!

I have a couple simple questions for you?

Does Dispatch account for descending to a lower altitude earlier than normal ....... on a flight into KEWR ?

Does Dispatch account for sitting in line for 45 minutes waiting to takeoff?

Does Dispatch account for flying around Thunderstorms enroute to destination?

Is a Pilot Using Good Judgement if he wants to add some fuel to his aircraft?

Answer Please!

About time somebody got it. I add fuel all the time as dispatch will normally show a POD much later than reality going into ORD.

 

[rajflyboy]

About time somebody got it. I add fuel all the time as dispatch will normally show a POD much later than reality going into ORD.

For Sure

Basic Common Sense Private Pilot 101 Stuff

 

[Dr. Rumack]

Maybe I have just been real lucky with dispatchers because the answer to your questions is yes. On a handful of occassions there is something they may have missed like TS enroute but they have no problem adding fuel. The company has put out multiple read files on bumping fuel. Their contention is clearly that diverting for fuel once in a while, on the whole, will cost less in fuel then bumping as a matter of practice. If a plane has suitable diverts (in my opinion that pretty much means vmc) then it is not a safety issue. It is an economics/hassle issue and the company is pretty clear what they want you to do. If a dispatcher does not allow for extra gas when safety is in question they should be fired on the spot.
I think if you were on one of my flights you would be ok. My record is spotless and my safety has never been called into question. I do not think 5% of my flights have landed with less than 5K pounds of fuel (A320) and I have not seen less than 4.5K on any of them.
Hypothetical question. If someone bumped gas every flight specifically with the intent to piss a company off, is there something wrong with that? Please leave it at a hypothetical question as I am not going to argue the intent of someone I have never met. I have, however, met people in the past that would do things like that so I know the possibility exists.

 

[Dr. Rumack]

Raj,
Forgot to mention. I referred to them as 'morons' for placing an ad in the USA Today. I think there has already been some good discussion as to how they may have better addressed the situation so I will leave it at that.

 

[rajflyboy]

Dr Rumack

Sorry

I can't put the blame on any pilot that wants extra fuel on his airplane.

You can't get back fuel you left on the ground. I don't care if you are flying a C152 or a Boeing 767.

Its good pilot judgement. Something you can't teach in the Sim !!

Safety trumps earning profits any day of the week. Just ask the attorney's. Sure... we haven't had a fuel related accident in a long time in the USA but lets not have one in the future either.

You can't write every last detail in an FOM or AFM. Pilot Judgement is a big part of what we do on a daily basis.