Nbaa Website.... Reply To A Job Posting

[ruhroa]

I am submitting this without comment............






-- Original Message -----

From: Phil Fountain


To: NBAA Jobs Air Mail


Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:51 PM


Subject: RE: [NBAA-jobs] Falcon 50 Captain





Hello Mark,



I saw this posting on the NBAA website and wanted to provide some information on how I may be able to assist your company in filling the Falcon 50 captain position.



I flew for Tenneco for 30 years and 25 as a captain on F-27s, Falcon-20, G1159, Cessna 560 & 650 aircraft. I have 16,000 hours and have full (early) retirement and medical. I’m 61 years old and still would like to fly for a part 91 operation. I have 5,825 hours of Falcon time and was a PPE on the F-27.



If interested, we can discuss the sharing of the cost of a type in the Falcon-50. I like to share my experiences with up and coming pilots that may be needed as a Captain at a later date. I you are interested in pursuing a relationship I will be pleased to send my resume.



Regards,



Phil Fountain



P.S. By the way I live only about an hour away in Racine

 

[fatburger]

What's wrong with that? Sounds like he paid his dues had a full career and wants to continue the dream. Don't know the guy from Adam but from what you wrote doesn't sound like a big deal. He did say he'd share in getting a type. Doesn't sound like PFT to me. He's not a 1500hr wonder buying a job.

just my opinion.....

-fatburger-

 

[Flying Illini]

He did say he'd share in getting a type. Doesn't sound like PFT to me. He's not a 1500hr wonder buying a job.

So it's OK for someone nearing the end of their career to "share" the cost of a type but if someone at the beginning of their career does it, it's wrong?

With his experience he shouldn't be so desperate for the job. The company should be happy to have him on board. It's like he's trying to move his name to the top of the list (in front of who knows how many other applicants who may currently be F50 captains) by offering to pay the company for his job. PFT is PFT is PFT no matter who is doing it. Even if the company decides to hire him and pay for all of his training, he still has undercut the rest of us by using his offer to pay for training to get him in the door.

I don't know him either, I just think he should have more respect for his experience level. He seems insecure.

 

[fatburger]

Don't know if he's insecure or not but I do feel for the older generation and have a great deal of respect for the aviators that came before us. My father hit mandatory retirement a year ago and it was the hardest thing to watch a stellar career come to an end before he was ready. I guess we just interpreted the post differently. And we both could be totally wrong.

It didn't sound like a pft thing to me. If he meant to imply he'd pft to get the position knowlingly then its wrong. I didn't think the old timers understood the whole pft thing. But I could be wrong.

-fatburger-

 

[Flying Illini]

Watching a career end prematurely would be a terrible thing to see and an even more terrible thing to experience. I do hope that this guy finds a job that he can enjoy for a few more years until he's ready hang it up.
Your father deserves a pat on the back for enduring for so long in such a tumultuous <sp?> career field.

 

[semperfido]

Fatburger is on the mark....no problem with it either

 

[Flying Illini]

so PFT is the way to compete now?
I'm curious what the responses would be if he didn't say how old he was.

Just trying to sort through this apparent double standard,
JD

 

[semperfido]

hmmm.

 

[Flyboy Sabre 65]

PFT is PFT. No matter who does it. In my book its always wrong!!!!

 

[rice]

Bull$hit!!!!!

What's wrong with that? Sounds like he paid his dues had a full career and wants to continue the dream. Don't know the guy from Adam but from what you wrote doesn't sound like a big deal. He did say he'd share in getting a type. Doesn't sound like PFT to me. He's not a 1500hr wonder buying a job.

just my opinion.....

-fatburger-

Sorry about the language but........

I read the original post on "Airmail" and agree with Ruhroa. FatBurger, you might want to go back and reread it too.

First, the guy took an early (full) retirement from Tenneco after a 30 yr career.
Sounds like he's had it better than most and probably deserved every penny earned but that is no excuse to undercut every other professional pilot out there trying to support a family.

Second, he is willing to "share" the cost of getting the DA-50 Type.
Do you think he ever made this offer to his employer of the past 30 yrs? I don't know but my money says probably not.

What this really sounds like to me is that the guy "retired" early for whatever reason but still wants to fly. Since he's got the security of a "full" retirement from his previous employer its no sweat for him to pony up the cash for half of the type and one can only assume (by his post) work for half the industry wage.

If this guy still wants to fly then he should find another gig the way most of do it and not undercut the profession or work as a contract pilot and charge the appropriate daily rate.

 

[StaySeated]

I don't have as big of a problem with the "sharing" as I do with posting the email. You post people's first and last names while under an alias to set up some sort of bashing circle-jerk. I don't know any of these people, and I hope that you don't, but I think you may have made your point without the email.

 

[kilroy]

With his experience and time he has put in the thought of pft should never cross his mind. At what point in your career are you worth enough for a company to hire you pay for your training and develop a professional relationship thru trust not thru paying them for your job. Its almost as bad as competing for the same job as a retired airline captain.They can afford to do the job for almost half its worth. So naturally the employer will hire a retired guy at a huge savings to the company before he hires a younger guy who really wants to work hard just to get the NBAA average salary there for whoring the wages for us hard working guys.

 

[bafanguy]

What this really sounds like to me is that the guy "retired" early for whatever reason but still wants to fly. Since he's got the security of a "full" retirement from his previous employer its no sweat for him to pony up...

Allow me to "inform" you of the reality of retirement: There is no such thing as a secure retirement. You don't understand that now because you aren't living it now but you will get your chance to see it first hand eventually. Come back and talk to us then.....

 

[kilroy]

I do understand what you are saying about retirement and have no problem with retired guys flying. But please don,t whore the market accepting jobs at far under the salary average. We need to stick together and try to make this an affordable occupation for all working hard to get here. All I,m saying his when applying for a job you know is in high demand don't lower your standards for pay just so you can get the job. Let your knowledge experience and personality win you the job not because you can afford to fly for the least amount of pay. Now please in no way think I'm aiming this at you . I know little about you and don't mean to offend I'm just trying to make a point

Allow me to "inform" you of the reality of retirement: There is no such thing as a secure retirement. You don't understand that now because you aren't living it now but you will get your chance to see it first hand eventually. Come back and talk to us then.....

 

[ruhroa]

I don't have as big of a problem with the "sharing" as I do with posting the email. You post people's first and last names while under an alias to set up some sort of bashing circle-jerk. I don't know any of these people, and I hope that you don't, but I think you may have made your point without the email.

i simply took what was posted by this guy his name and all from a email that was sent to every subscriber on the airmail nbaa site.....he posted it all publicaly(sp) all i did was paste and post....... by the by i got banned from recieving nbaa mail now cause i replied on their forum to what i thought of this guy.............

 

[semperfido]

this is no union and i don't care about sticking together. it is a dog eat dog world. however, i would probably help you or anyone any way i could. and if i wanted a job bad enough i would undercut you in a heartbeat.

PS: we will all probably be working until we are 80.

 

[shaq]

Anyone who sees this as anything other than PFT needs to have their head examined.

As for the retirement end of this discussion, how are the rest of us ever going to get somewhere long enough to retire with people like this gem running around ? He is simply putting in the notion of sharing the type rating expenses to place his name in front of everyone else that is not willing to undermine their qualifications/experience in such a way...

And as for "continuing the dream," this kind of garbage is turning the dream in to a nightmare for all of us.

 

[Flyboy Sabre 65]

So your the guy they banned. I'm glad I kept my mouth shut.

 

[AA717driver]

If he wants to share his experience, he should get on with a frac or instruct at FSI. No one on here had better say a word about PFT from now on.

He has his retirement. The vagaries of the market are something everyone has to deal with. I got hosed by TWA and AA. Guess I have carte blanche to whore myself out because I won't be walking away with a seven-figure retirement. IOW, the frailty of anyone's retirement is irrelevent to this discussion.

Hey Illini! Looks like we'd better shave our legs and put on the mini-skirt and fishnets. Guess we all know what we are--we just haven't determined a price. TC

 

[prpjt]

.....he posted it all publicaly(sp) all i did was paste and post....... by the by i got banned from recieving nbaa mail now cause i replied on their forum to what i thought of this guy.............

Not to bash here, but the guy did not post his information in a public forum. The NBAA forums are for the use of it's members, and the content shouldn't be copied to a public board.

 

[Flying Illini]

It seems Semperfido has changed his mind on the subject and has gone back through and "edited" all of his posts. If you have been pursuaded to change your mind, admit it, it's OK. Don't go back and make it seem like you were on the other side of the fence all along.

AA717, I guess I'd better bust out the ol' school girl outfit. Any tips on how to really make my cleavage "pop?" I'd like to be able to hold the check for my half of my type without using my hands if you know what I mean.

IOW, the frailty of anyone's retirement is irrelevent to this discussion.

Exactly.

 

[AA717driver]

AA717, I guess I'd better bust out the ol' school girl outfit. Any tips on how to really make my cleavage "pop?" I'd like to be able to hold the check for my half of my type without using my hands if you know what I mean.

Oh, man, that schoolgirl schtick does the trick! Well, so to speak...

If you want better cleavage, try putting on 40 lbs. and turning 50. Works big time! TC

 

[semperfido]

no I haven't changed my mind. however, i did reconsider how i may have said something. is that a crime?. i am a free market guy. i have never paid for a type rating. it doesn't mean i wouldn't though. there is no level playing field. and union mentality won't help you. the guy in question is being competitive and given his probable age he is using tools at his disposal.

 

[bafanguy]

And as for "continuing the dream," this kind of garbage is turning the dream in to a nightmare for all of us.

It isn't about continuing the dream; it's about continuing the paycheck. And apparently, the frailty of this guy's retirement IS relevant and influencing his decisions. Is he required to conduct himself and his career to other people's standards ?

 

[ruhroa]

prpjt

just to keep the record straight......... it was sent to my mailbox as well as published on the forum......... i suppose you are right in hindsight i should have deleted the name but............. i didn't ......... i was so angry and shocked that a person of such caliber experience and exposure would be willing to that ..... it clouded my judgement for that i am sorry........ i am not sorry that i put the post on line though........

 

[shaq]

It isn't about continuing the dream; it's about continuing the paycheck. And apparently, the frailty of this guy's retirement IS relevant and influencing his decisions. Is he required to conduct himself and his career to other people's standards ?

Wanting to continue a paycheck doesn't make this guy special, especially in this business. He was able to work a long career for ONE company and get to retire. And using that good fortune to undercut everyone wanting to do the same thing else is BS. By the way if your so concerned about everyone's retirement prospects you should be against this kind of thing to... Can I ask how you would feel if you were applying to this position for the hope of a stable long term position with a possible retirement and then in comes this guy trying to wheel and deal his way to the top of the stack by taking advantage of the fact he ALREADY has a FULL RETIREMENT??? He can conduct himself however he wants as long as he doesn't care who he p*ss's off in the process. Most reputable D.O.'s / Chief Pilot's frown on this kind of garbage and by the way most are on that particular board (NBAA Airmail)...

I do think it is wrong to put his name on a public forum. However then again he was asking for it. Is the NBAA Airmail really that private? EVERYONE I know in the business has access to it.

Regards

 

[rice]

JEEZ, You Crack Me Up!!!

It isn't about continuing the dream; it's about continuing the paycheck. And apparently, the frailty of this guy's retirement IS relevant and influencing his decisions. Is he required to conduct himself and his career to other people's standards ?

How in the world do YOU KNOW if the guys retirement is frail or not????? Quit making assumptions about someone else' economic situation. I would be just as wrong if I assumed that the guy has a $10 miilion pension and is just doing this because he's not ready for full-time golf yet. Maybe the strength of his package is what is influencing his decisions to "share" the cost of the type rating.

BTW, we are all in some way "required" to conduct ourselves to other peoples standards. I believe its called professionalism. Do you pick your nose in the cockpit, come to work unshaven or without a shower, wear wrinkled clothes, skip the pre-flight, check the weather, fly in or near Thundserstorms, think you know how to operate the aircraft better than the AFM. I could go on and on, but these are just a few examples of conducting ones self to other's standards.

And Ruhroa, nice job with the post, shows some big ones.

 

[AA717driver]

Do you pick your nose in the cockpit, come to work unshaven or without a shower, wear wrinkled clothes, skip the pre-flight, check the weather, fly in or near Thundserstorms, think you know how to operate the aircraft better than the AFM.

Do I have to answer that? TC

 

[bafanguy]

How in the world do YOU KNOW if the guys retirement is frail or not????? Quit making assumptions about someone else' economic situation. I would be just as wrong if I assumed that the guy has a $10 miilion pension and is just doing this because he's not ready for full-time golf yet. Maybe the strength of his package is what is influencing his decisions to "share" the cost of the type rating.

BTW, we are all in some way "required" to conduct ourselves to other peoples standards. I believe its called professionalism. Do you pick your nose in the cockpit, come to work unshaven or without a shower, wear wrinkled clothes, skip the pre-flight, check the weather, fly in or near Thundserstorms, think you know how to operate the aircraft better than the AFM. I could go on and on, but these are just a few examples of conducting ones self to other's standards.

Yikes, Man !! I made no assumption about this guy's retirement. Financial motive was mentioned by someone as a reason why the guy in question was so interested in continuing to fly after his retirement. I was merely addressing that possibility from personal knowledge...not making any assumptions.

As for other people's standards, I was referring to big-picture, life choices as in whether one wants to fly during retirement, how he intends to go about doing that, and whether he must change his choices ( he doesn't ) when his methods rub some "other people" the wrong way....not whether he shaves before coming to work or skips a preflight.


Have a nice day.

 

[semperfido]

again Bafanguy is right on...