Nbaa Website.... Reply To A Job Posting

[sleepy]

Honestly, the last thing that I want is some washed-up old cowboy sharing his experiences (this is how we did it at brand X 20 years ago) with me. This may sound harsh, and I don't know this guy personally, but I worked at a place full of desperate old guys once, and I would not want to do it again.

 

[shaq]

again Bafanguy is right on...he obviously has been on the planet a while.

On exactly which planet would the both of you reside?

It's obviously not Earth...

Anyway, I guess I'll adopt your methodology from now on. Screw everyone else and look out for numero uno. Thanks for the advice.

 

[semperfido]

ok i like to edit so shoot me.

 

[Kingairrick]

Anyone who offers a company money to offset what are fixed costs associated with aircraft ownership is lowering the bar for all of us. This guy is guilty of exactly that. I'm glad he has been called out on it.

The NBAA Airmail forum he posted this on goes to THOUSANDS of receivers. I doubt anyone seriously considers it to be private. That would be incredibly niave. I got the origional post on the NBAA Airmail in my email, and I'm not an NBAA member anymore...

Flame his a$$...My .02, as always.

 

[bafanguy]

Honestly, the last thing that I want is some washed-up old cowboy sharing his experiences (this is how we did it at brand X 20 years ago) with me. This may sound harsh...

Gee, do ya really think so ?? That's so nice. So, since I'm one of those, allow me to share my experiences with you ( yipee oh ki-yay ): after I retired, I was called to an interview with an airline operating the same airplane I was on at retirement. When I got there, the paperwork included a 4-page legal document where I was supposed to agree to a $20K training bond, worked off over a three year period. I thanked them for the invite...got up and walked out. I consider things like that indentured servitude and refuse to be apart of it. I have remained unemployed ever since.

The only thing I support is a right to choose...and civilized behavior. The first, you apparently don't support; the second you have yet to demonstrate.

 

[sleepy]

Gee, do ya really think so ?? That's so nice. So, since I'm one of those, allow me to share my experiences with you ( yipee oh ki-yay ): after I retired, I was called to an interview with an airline operating the same airplane I was on at retirement. When I got there, the paperwork included a 4-page legal document where I was supposed to agree to a $20K training bond, worked off over a three year period. I thanked them for the invite...got up and walked out. I consider things like that indentured servitude and refuse to be apart of it. I have remained unemployed ever since.

The only thing I support is a right to choose...and civilized behavior. The first, you apparently don't support; the second you have yet to demonstrate.

Well if, as you admit, you are washed-up and a cowboy, then I really don't think there is anything that you can teach sombody like me.

It is expensive to own and operate a jet aircraft. If you can't really afford to maintain the aircraft, train your pilots and mechanics, and pay them too, then you shouldn't have an aircraft. Pilots that help people like this operate by offering to pay their own training costs or flying for free only encourage this type of owner.

 

[bafanguy]

Well if, as you admit, you are washed-up and a cowboy, then I really don't think there is anything that you can teach sombody like me.

It is expensive to own and operate a jet aircraft. If you can't really afford to maintain the aircraft, train your pilots and mechanics, and pay them too, then you shouldn't have an aircraft.

I can't see where/how job applicants have any part in that. Sounds like a management problem. And, I certainly wouldn't try to teach you anything. Quite to the contrary, I learn from exchanging ideas with people like you.

 

[kilroy]

Come on guys when are you at the point that you think you have so much knowledge and experience that you can't possibly learn anymore from the guys with experience and knowledge flying in airplane you,ll never fly ,places you,ve never been and situations you have never heard of. Yes flying is different today but we need to learn from the guys that have been there and done that and give them the respect they deserve for that. But no respect in the department of pft. Thats a different issue and needs to be treated that way.

Well if, as you admit, you are washed-up and a cowboy, then I really don't think there is anything that you can teach sombody like me.

It is expensive to own and operate a jet aircraft. If you can't really afford to maintain the aircraft, train your pilots and mechanics, and pay them too, then you shouldn't have an aircraft. Pilots that help people like this operate by offering to pay their own training costs or flying for free only encourage this type of owner.

 

[Flying Illini]

Hey Kilroy, your snowman's carrot is in the wrong place!

 

[kilroy]

OOPS!!......Hate when that happens . My wife dressed my this morning

Hey Kilroy, your snowman's carrot is in the wrong place!

 

[sleepy]

Come on guys when are you at the point that you think you have so much knowledge and experience that you can't possibly learn anymore from the guys with experience and knowledge flying in airplane you,ll never fly ,places you,ve never been and situations you have never heard of. Yes flying is different today but we need to learn from the guys that have been there and done that and give them the respect they deserve for that. But no respect in the department of pft. Thats a different issue and needs to be treated that way.

What I am saying is that my first corporate job was at a place fully of washed-up old corporate cowboys who had no regard for safety, FAR's, or common sense. What I am saying is that I have been there and done that, and there is nothing somebody like this can teach me (except how not to fly).

Now I don't know this guy who posted on our NBAA site, but my guess is that if he had a lot on the ball he would not be so desperate to get a job that he would have to offer to pay his own way into it. It's just a guess, but....?

 

[apache]

This guy reminds me of quite a few (but not all) military guys that I've worked with. These retired guys frequently pft and lobby against tough actions by the union or pilot group to fight for pay and bennies because they don't want to upset their little secure world of their guaranteed retirement plus their "fun, after retirement" job. Result: We all work for less and the bar gets lowered.

And so many of these schmucks are rewarded by getting check airman, training, and management positions for their "can-do attitude". Can-do sell this whole profession down the sewer.

 

[G100driver]

This guy reminds me of quite a few (but not all) military guys that I've worked with. These retired guys frequently pft and lobby against tough actions by the union or pilot group to fight for pay and bennies because they don't want to upset their little secure world of their guaranteed retirement plus their "fun, after retirement" job. Result: We all work for less and the bar gets lowered.

And so many of these schmucks are rewarded by getting check airman, training, and management positions for their "can-do attitude". Can-do sell this whole profession down the sewer.

Could not agree more. I have seen it all from mechs to former airline (retired) pilots. The classic is the local retireree's who had lived the dream flying heavy iron for the worlds largest carrier's "needing" a job because they are bored and did not want to retire. While I can empatize (note empaty, not sympathy) with them, my 1st response is get a hobby or TEACH aviation.

I receive far to many calls from guys NEEDING work. While I value the old timers expirences, I really do not want to see them in my cockpit. I would much rather see these take these expirence and spend time teaches classes. Some of the best expirences in classrooms I have had have been from retired corp., airline and military.

To all you airline guys who are bored and can afford to retire ... do the right thing. Step aside and allow the younger guys to take advantage of the age 60 rule that allowed you to prosper in your younger days. Who knows, it may even increase the amount respect that you deserve. Anything short of that, you will loose all the respect that you have so rightly earned.

While it is a free market, one thing that is sorely missing is class.

 

[G100driver]

OOPS!!......Hate when that happens . My wife dressed my this morning

AWWW comeone guys, he was just having a little fun. Lighten up!

 

[murfdawg998]

Sorry about the language but........

I read the original post on "Airmail" and agree with Ruhroa. FatBurger, you might want to go back and reread it too.

Rice, first of all, I wholeheartedly agree with you and I also read all the bickering on this post on the "Airmail." I think guys were kicked off the Airmail over this topic.

Just one more thing...how can you agree with Ruhroa when he posted without making any comment?! J/K!!!! Don't get bent.

 

[murfdawg998]

So your the guy they banned. I'm glad I kept my mouth shut.

He may be better off...sometimes those Airmails are quite inundating (spelling?) and very time-consuming

 

[Stearmandriver]

Bafanguy,

Gotta say I find your take on this issue interesting, considering your long history with this business. I respect your experience and usually find your posts on-target, but your stance on this surprises me. I gather that you've gotten a raw deal from one of the majors, and I can understand your genuine need to find another job, preferably in your chosen field where you have experience to offer. But lets turn this around, and take it back to the days when you were a moderately experienced pilot, maybe with a growing family to support, looking for that "real career" type job with the airlines. Suppose that, in your interview process, it came down to a choice between you and someone else. Suppose the other guy just happened to come from a modestly wealthy family and, in a moment of overwhelming desire to fly airliners, offered to split his training costs with the company. Suppose you got your rejection letter a few days later, and then found out what happened. How would you have felt about that then? How would you have felt, knowing that your family would continue to do without while you continued to work your time-building job, because someone else had the means to buy this opportunity out from under you?

I understand that a bad retirement, or none at all, is a difficult place to be. My dad's got 35 years as a UAL mech... still three years from full retirement. Think it'll be there? He doesn't. I understand that being out of work is humbling, and bills simply have to get paid. I also understand that offering to share training costs to "jump in line" is perfectly legal, capitalism at it's best (or worst), and there's no way to judge whether or not it's "fair". But, given the scenario above (the same scenario this thread deals with), can you really argue that it's ethical? If so, how? I'm not attacking your views, I'm just honestly curious. 'Cause, see, I'm that guy in the previous paragraph - the young, moderately experienced guy looking for a career job to support a growing family. (Ok, before someone else points it out, my present position does a fine job of paying the bills... and I see my family 2-3 days a week. Some things are more important, or at least just as important, as money.) It's a tough enough market out there right now, but I have no problems at all waiting in line behind the more experienced. That's how it's supposed to work. What I DO mind is waiting in line behind someone just because they have a spare 15 grand in the bank.

Joe