Nationwide Walkout!!!!

[pilotyip]

sirfly aren't we being a little liberal is the definition of SCAB? As a former ALPA and Teamster member I have always thought a scab is someone who crosses a picket line to fly struck work. If a pilot goes to work for a new airline that is not union, I have ever though about that being a scab. As far a the bottom goes, when you are unemployed at age 53 $4OK per year looks ok, $60K looks great, 20K was too low I could not work for that, so I turned down Atlantic Coast Airlines in 1996, but it turns out I would have made Captain in 4 months. It is part of starting over and many on this board have done the same. Again nothing against the college degree, my feeling it just gets in the way of starting a flying career. BTW great airlines like JB, SWA, CAL,. AirTran do not let the absence of a degree stand in the way of hiring the right pilot.

 

[CUZ]

Fractionals or corporate. If you were a multi-millionaire, would you want to push and shove through the security line next to some smelly NASCAR fans only to have a TSA gorilla tell you to take off your shoes, belt, etc. and then poke you in the a$$ with his metal detector after you set it off? I know I wouldn't. I'd pay premium to fly on my own jet in true luxury i.e. no lines, no TSA, no screaming kids, no NASCAR fans, no nonrevs, and I leave at the time of MY choosing etc. (posted by freight dog)

Dog, dat last paragraph was pretty damn funny. Not trying to millify the point, just thought everyone should no CUZ got quite a giggle.

 

[HalinTexas]

I'm going to take some credit for redirecting this thread. I wanted to see if I can start some discussion outside of the box.

Congratulations, we got it.

My point is the industry and the "systems" within it are flawed and need to be re-examined. The "traditional" airline pilot is gone, thanks to deregulation as well as other factors. Do I want to go back? No. That was a worse situation for everyone, but the owners with clout and those priveleged few pilots that were able to get hired.

New thinking is on the horizon. With automation, we may see single pilot operations with a majority of the systems of flight automated and the "pilot" is there for backup. And to feed the monkey. Laugh now, but it's coming. Engineers, navigators and radio operators are almost all gone now, but they were necessary in times past.

Continue the discussion. Please. Some of it is really good, but all is welcome. Keep thinking outside the box.

 

[Ty Webb]

Great post, and I would agree with you about 95%.

I would say, though, that it certainly is not impossible to make something like this happen, although we may not be there quite yet.

Can you imagine someone saying in early 2001 that Delta, NWA, USAir and United would be bankrupt, and that AirTran and JetBlue would be major airlines?

Never say never. If a nationwide guild doesn't happen, though, there is a fair chance of this career coming to an end for a lot of us.

 

[banned username 1]

Just a time out...

What a great bunch of posts on this thread. This is how this board ought to be most of the time. Bravo.

Great work guys. Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

-78

 

[TurboJetCpt]

What's that old expression about judging others lest ye be judged? AA717Driver has been in this business a lot longer than you or I and since I've flown with him I can vouch for the fact that he is not at all self-serving in his evaluation; he just sees things more clearly than you do.

A national walk-out day? Great idea; that'll show 'em.
-- It's illegal. Expect consequences from the courts.
-- If you haven't noticed our government is anti-union. Expect consequences. (think about what Senator McCain says)
-- The public isn't sympathetic. Times are tough for many sectors of the economy.

In other words, a national walk-out would not have the desired effect. Management is beating the unions today because it's losing so much money. ALPA is effed-up and needs a real leader but even that wouldn't be enough to cure our ills.

I think you misread his response. AA717 was only making a commentary on the current state of ALPO. I am sure he would support the idea IF it was endorsed nationwide but, as all of us current and former ALPO members KNOW, this would NEVER happen due to the immediate cessation of INCOME for that F'ing BALLBAG DUANE WORTHLESS !

 

[Mooseflyer]

A question from someone new to the industry...... I've seen much bashing of ALPA in general and Duane Worth in particular on this board. If he's doing such a bad job, why can't he be voted out? Surely there are annual or periodical elections? Is there someone else in mind for the job? What qualities are we/you looking for?

 

[SirFlyALot]

sirfly aren't we being a little liberal is the definition of SCAB? As a former ALPA and Teamster member I have always thought a scab is someone who crosses a picket line to fly struck work. If a pilot goes to work for a new airline that is not union, I have ever though about that being a scab. As far a the bottom goes, when you are unemployed at age 53 $4OK per year looks ok, $60K looks great, 20K was too low I could not work for that, so I turned down Atlantic Coast Airlines in 1996, but it turns out I would have made Captain in 4 months. It is part of starting over and many on this board have done the same. Again nothing against the college degree, my feeling it just gets in the way of starting a flying career. BTW great airlines like JB, SWA, CAL,. AirTran do not let the absence of a degree stand in the way of hiring the right pilot.

No, I don't think I'm being liberal in my definition of a scab. The only caveat I will add is that the definition would only fit AFTER we transitioned to a national union. I am not blasting the present members of indepedent unions like those that exist at SWA and AirTran or the non-union pilots at JB. Once again, here's my definition of a scab: 1) management creating a non-union pilot group, 2) a pilot group creating their own independent union, 3) management bringing in replacement workers during a union action, or 4) management outsourcing flying to a foreign carrier or foreign pilots. These all fit the definition of scabbing because they would all undermine the power of a national union and ultimately, our ability to support our families and make a living.

Regarding bottom pay, my point is that we have all conditioned ourselves to different thresholds at which a certain level of pay is too low. For you it sounds like it's about $30K. I can guarantee you for others it's a lot higher. For some, it's even lower than $30K. We should condition pilots to expect a salary at a major 121 carrier that is at least able to comfortably support an average-sized family living in a nice area of a major metropolitan area. Virtually any pilot at a major 121 carrier has worked long and hard to get to that point and we should negotiate compensation that is in line with the work it took to get there and the demands/responsibilities of the job.

Regarding starting over, perhaps in the days of yore, when regulation reigned and a few dominant airlines ruled the skies, the seniority system we have created for ourselves was an effective way of protecting ourselves. It's not anymore. You are absolutely right in that starting over has become an all-too familiar aspect of this job for too many of us. The seniority system must adapt to reflect that. It no longer looks out for the interests of most of us. In fact, it hurts far more of us than it helps. Just look around.

 

[AA717driver]

A question from someone new to the industry...... I've seen much bashing of ALPA in general and Duane Worth in particular on this board. If he's doing such a bad job, why can't he be voted out? Surely there are annual or periodical elections? Is there someone else in mind for the job? What qualities are we/you looking for?

Moose--Good question. That would be equivalent to voting out the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and some squadron puke running for the job.

ALPA National is the holy grail for those among us who would rather work in an office than fly. It takes incredible political skills (not the good kind--better get your claws sharpened) much a$$-kissing and deal-making. By the time you get to Herndon, you've lost any loyalty to your own pilot group.

To actually make it to the ALPA BOD, you will have had to dispatch many of your competitors and exchange blood, spit and other bodily fluids which shall go unnamed with the other BOD members to get that coveted position. More blood will be shed and other fluids exchanged to get to one of the top three spots at ALPA National. THEN you have made it to the top. That's when the gravy starts rolling in.

This takes years of plott...er, excuse me, planning to execute. By the time Hank Duffy became President of ALPA, Delta (his airline) wasn't even flying the type of plane he was last qualified on--the DC-8.

Anyway, it bears no resemblance to a democratic process. The Russian people had more say in electing Khrushchev than we had in electing Woerth.TC

 

[Captain Overs]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! HOHOHOHOHOHO!!! Boy, xjet, that's a good one.

Now that the ALPA Golden Boys are in deep $h!t, you want everyone to sit up and take notice. Sorry, that train pulled out of the station in 1983 and kept picking up speed until ALPA stabbed the TWA pilots in the back in 2001.

Let me refresh your memory:

No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo stole the CAL pensions.

No nationwide walkout when random drug testing was implemented.

No nationwide walkout when pilots were forced to go through security screening with the pax.

No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo was stealing EAL blind prior to shutting them down.

No nationwide walkout when the Delta pilots screwed the PanAm pilots.

No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier Reno got stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.

No nationwide walkout when Emery pilots got hosed.

No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier TWA was advised to abandon its SCOPE clause by ALPA attorneys then the majority of its pilots were stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.

Too little, too late dog...TC

I'm sure you sat and watched it happen without opening your mouth.