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MedFlyer said:Judging by the contract your pilot group is working under, I wouldn't be bragging about your stones too much
As for a walkout, it's a nice idea, but it wouldn't accomplish anything. It would simply turn the flying public and the government against pilots even more. Do you really think you are going to get sympathy from the average Joe?
It's kind of funny that everyone seems to think that just raising fares will solve all the problems. Well, if that's the case:
-Maybe your grocery store should raise the price of food 30% so that the poor migrants who pick your produce can have a living wage and benefits?
-Maybe the government (state, federal, local) should raise your taxes 30% so that teachers, firefighters, police, EMT's, can get a decent wage?
"KeroseneSnorter said:While I am glad to see some of the regional boys starting to try and stand up for something.
I am puzzeled why they did not do it before? You know, back when UsAir was being gutted, TWA, UAL, etc...
Oh wait.....thats right, back then mgmt. was busy gutting the mainlines and buying the regional boys a whole heap o new shiny jets to play with! I see, now that your rj's are being removed out from under you by other regionals that are undercutting you, you now want a nationwide action campaign.
About 4 years ago I got bashed on another webboard for bringing this fact up, back then I told those guys that is was only a matter of time before they were the ones targeted, and if it kept up their chances of ever seeing a mainline in their career was quickly dissappearing. I believe his exact response to me was (coming from a 25 year old new RJ Capt.), "Your time is over old man, your kind is a dinosaur, get out of the way." Funny how a few years and approaching 30 years old will change a fellows point of view!
OK Rant over, At least it is nice that the regional guys are starting to see that what happens to one section of the industry affect all of us sooner or later.
"Complete integration of all regional carriers into the parent company's seniority list is the only way to solve this problem. However I think the window of oppertunity on that is far past.
Mr Hat said:We got this all wrong. We don't need a national seniority list, that would cause more problems than it would solve. I do think that way before that should happen the unions should push for single lists among certain brands. Example, CAL/XJET one list, DAL and everyone that feeds them one list, NWA, AAL, UAL, USAir and their respective regionals, one list.
The true problem here is the RJ. I am an RJ captain however, I can see where the problem lies. Now some might say that if the problem is the RJ, then the RJ pilots are to blams....wrong. The real people who dropped the ball are the pilots at the majors who ALLOWED those "Turbo props without props" to be operated by the regionals in the first place. I can totally see why they made that decision though, managments of the US airlines lulled everyone into a false sense of security. "It's only an RJ, it's just a turbo prop without props, it's not a threat to your jobs besides who wants to go back to flying a turbo-prop without props anyway" SOOOOOO the Major airline pilots of America said "Okay fine, you can operate those airplanes at the regionals" with varying rules.
These RJ's came online with their turbo prop pay and did "regional" type flying. But a few years later, as they proved themselves those airplanes started to replace DC9 routes, then 737 routes and now there is a glut of RJ's and all bets are off. They fly the same routes as the mainline aircraft but are still being paid turbo prop pay.
Now here's the clincher. The major airline pilots and ALPA national never gave much thought to regional pilot pay....."Pay your dues kid! I did!" was the phrase. The problem is that all airline pilots are connected on these issues, hence the reason for ALPA national in the first place. It took some time but eventually management realized that if these RJ pilots will work for X, so will the 737 guys and so on.
One of the negotiating issues we had at XJet in 2000 was that we wanted our pay to be in line with CAL. Meaning that we wanted to use the same method of paying CAL aircraft applied to the RJ instead of the ATR method.
We fell short of what we thought was "in-line" with CAL pay in 2000 but then CAL took concessions and guess what, We are now paid in line with CAL but they came down to us, not us up to them.
The same thing has happened all over the industry, the RJ pilots aren't so severly underpaid anymore because the majors have all taken concessions and come down to our level. Interpolate from the 737 down and the RJ's should be in line with major airline pay.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't blame the pilots of the major airlines in the 90's who allowed RJ's at the regionals. There was no way to know that this would happen....in fact if you went back in time and told them, they wouldn't believe you. Conversly you can't blame the RJ pilots, we are all pawns in the same game.
The RJ paved the way to water down pilot compensation levels. 9/11 accelerated that watering down and gas prices are now pushing it further. Soon, RJ's will start to go away but replacing those RJs will be E190's which will further degrade the industry pay because a precident has already been made by paying those pilots flying anything Embraer at turbo prop rates....(Don't believe me? The E190 and E170 are comparable to a 737 and DC 9 respectivly....look at the difference in pay!)
What ALPA national needs to do is set minimum equipment rates and refuse to sign any contract that violates those rates. Its the only way to stop people from trying to cut their brothers heads off in "Pilot pay fare wars"
Just my opinion.
Ty Webb said:Look, guy, I don't all day to sit here and say the same thing over and over. What happened at American was one union. That is why the judge imposed the fine. I-am-not-talking-about-a-union-action. . . . . clear enough? I'm talking about pilots-in-general.
Ty Webb said:How many months I was here before upgrade?
Did anyone say that the stated goal was to garner symapthy? It's to make a statement . . . to show some strength, to direct the spotlight on the fact that pilots are standing firm, and will not be flying 767's for LCC 717 pay.
If you negotiate it, they will have to raise fares.
I came into this job with my eyes open, and I never stopped developing business interests on the outside.
AA717driver said:HAHAHAHAHA!!!! HOHOHOHOHOHO!!! Boy, xjet, that's a good one.
Now that the ALPA Golden Boys are in deep $h!t, you want everyone to sit up and take notice. Sorry, that train pulled out of the station in 1983 and kept picking up speed until ALPA stabbed the TWA pilots in the back in 2001.
Let me refresh your memory:
No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo stole the CAL pensions.
No nationwide walkout when random drug testing was implemented.
No nationwide walkout when pilots were forced to go through security screening with the pax.
No nationwide walkout when Lorenzo was stealing EAL blind prior to shutting them down.
No nationwide walkout when the Delta pilots screwed the PanAm pilots.
No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier Reno got stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.
No nationwide walkout when Emery pilots got hosed.
No nationwide walkout when ALPA carrier TWA was advised to abandon its SCOPE clause by ALPA attorneys then the majority of its pilots were stapled by non-ALPA carrier AA.
Too little, too late dog...TC