National Seniority Protocol

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Only know what I read in the WSJ. He said GM managemnt failed to confront the UAW.

and again....

He said GM managemnt failed

and again

He said GM managemnt failed

again

He said GM managemnt failed


Managments run companies. Any management team that doesn't run the company should be removed. Any manamgement team that doesn't work with unions and creates an adversarial relationship should be removed. Unions don't run companies. Any management team that blames unions should be removed.

 

[pilotyip]

Your thoughts

and again....

Unions don't run companies. Any management team that blames unions should be removed.

Then answer why was GM manamgnet afraid of a strike? and the resultant long term loss of sales. BTW What would be your take if GM managment had stood up to the UAW in 1992 and let they strike in order to preserve what they thought was the best course for the long term forthe comp

 

[scoreboardII]

Date of Commercial License issue is the most fair, IMO. Not all career pilots have an ATP.

For you military folks that crossed over to CIVILIAN aviation? It would be the date you crossed over or converted your license.

Military seniority (not experience, ability, knowledge..that would count for you getting a job of course) BUT YOUR SENIORITY does not mean SH*T in the Civilian world, IMO. Unless the Military can reciprocate.

My 2 cents.

So it's settled, military time will count toward national seniority on the date you start your training in the military, inlcuding ROTC and Academies.

And I agree with you, the military already reciprocates with seniority in the Guard and Reserve, your qualifications will be reviewed, you will be accepted into whatever position your qualified for, just as soon as you pass the physical entry standards, background checks and commit to 12 or more years like everyone else. That sounds fair, right?

 

[Daytonaflyer]

I don't think any national seniority list should determine your seniority at a company if you change jobs. It should ONLY apply to the pay rate that you are offered when you start at a new company. There is absolutely no reason why a newly hired pilot should be given all the additional privileges seniority allows over current employees of an airline.

You should not be able to change jobs and immediately get a captain seat, or better schedule, or better benefits than a current pilot at the company who may not be as old or experienced, but who has worked for the company longer.

Even in non-airline jobs, pay rate is determined by the experience you bring to the job, but seniority is not. Until ALPA figures out a way to tie pay rates into their "calculated seniority" method without forcing additional seniority privileges upon a company, this will not have my support.

 

[FDJ2]

I don't think any national seniority list should determine your seniority at a company if you change jobs. It should ONLY apply to the pay rate that you are offered when you start at a new company. There is absolutely no reason why a newly hired pilot should be given all the additional privileges seniority allows over current employees of an airline.

You should not be able to change jobs and immediately get a captain seat, or better schedule, or better benefits than a current pilot at the company who may not be as old or experienced, but who has worked for the company longer.

Even in non-airline jobs, pay rate is determined by the experience you bring to the job, but seniority is not. Until ALPA figures out a way to tie pay rates into their "calculated seniority" method without forcing additional seniority privileges upon a company, this will not have my support.

Perhaps a better system is national longevity for pay, either full credit or ratioed, needs to be enforced by a reciprocal CBA with reciprocal preferential hiring of furloughed pilots. Sorry, non union pilots, back of the line for you, no more free loading, no CBA, no credit.

 

[C Festerpuss]

[FONT=&quot]hEY EVERYONE, LOOK AT WHAT THE BOYS IN hERNDON HAVE DONE.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]tHEY HAVE GONE AND CHANGEd MERGER POLICY, AGAIN.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]

administrative manual[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]section 45 – merger and fragmentation policy [/FONT][FONT=&quot]4/30/09[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]MERGER AND FRAGMENTATION POLICY[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]SOURCE – In April 2009, the Executive Board adopted major revisions to ALPA Merger and Fragmentation Policy. Future amendments will be noted where they occur in the policy and will include the governing body and amendment date.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]4. Seniority List Integration – Negotiations [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]e. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable integrated seniority list is reached. Factors to be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list, in no particular order and with no particular weight, shall include but not be limited to the following:[/FONT]

§[FONT=&quot] Career expectations. [/FONT]

§[FONT=&quot] Longevity. [/FONT][FONT=&quot](I wonder why they would do this, ALPA never makes mistakes do they?)[/FONT]

§[FONT=&quot] Status and category. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]f. No integrated seniority list shall be subject to MEC or membership ratification.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------******************************------------------[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Here is the prior ALPA Merger and Fragmentation Policy[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]MERGER AND FRAGMENTATION POLICY [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]SOURCE ‑ Except where noted otherwise, the Merger Policy was adopted/reaffirmed by the November 1986 Board of Directors.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]PREAMBLE[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The role of ALPA in seniority integration is solely to provide the process by which the affected pilot groups on ALPA airlines arrive at the merged seniority list for presentation to management, through their respective merger representatives, using arbitration if necessary. Responsibility for the merged seniority list falls upon the respective merger representatives with ALPA National in a neutral position on the merits. It must be understood that what appears to be truly "fair and equitable" often differs depending upon the eyes of the beholder and that there may be no consensus of what is "fair and equitable." This policy does not preclude two or more ALPA pilot groups from entering into discussions and/or reaching an agreement without invoking this process. (SOURCE - Executive Board May 1991; AMENDED - Executive Board May 1998)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]G[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] MERGER NEGOTIATIONS [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Preserve jobs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Maintain or improve pre‑merger pay and standard of living.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]d.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Maintain or improve pre‑merger pilot status.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]e.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]The ALPA executive committee has made this change. I wonder how much membership input went into this decision? This change is not part of the ALPA Constitution and Bylaws and therefore does not require membership ratification.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]​

 

[PCL_128]

Why on earth should this small change to the Admin Manual require membership ratification? Besides, you're incorrect on the CBL, also. The Bylaws can be changed by BOD vote, not by membership vote.

 

[Joblu]

So it's settled, military time will count toward national seniority on the date you start your training in the military, inlcuding ROTC and Academies.

And I agree with you, the military already reciprocates with seniority in the Guard and Reserve, your qualifications will be reviewed, you will be accepted into whatever position your qualified for, just as soon as you pass the physical entry standards, background checks and commit to 12 or more years like everyone else. That sounds fair, right?

Keep dreaming.