National Seniority Protocol

[michael707767]

DOH from your first 121 carrier.

I'm curious. Given that two arbitrations looking at fairly similar airlines have failed to produce a DOH list, how do you think you would ever get a national DOH list?

 

[AutoBus]

An union airline has an open seat for an A-320 Captain. Go to Union's NSL, pick the next in line, pay him for equipment and time on the list. Makes no difference to them who fills the seat, the cost is the same. Except for those new non-union airlines that don't believe in a NSL.

This is about the most idiotic proposal I have EVER seen!


What if the guy is an incompetent a-hole? Your going to force someone to take him?

 

[livin'thesim]

The problem with DOH at first 121 carrier, or DOH at first 121 carrier is that pilots could game the system by working a year at a low-end 121 outfit flying 19-seaters, then move to corporate for years, only to cash in the seniority number later when it holds a good enough seat.

Time spent working OR furloughed from a 121 carrier makes more sense.

You can't game out getting furloughed all that easily, and it is no fault of the pilot.

But you can see real opportunity for shenanigans if you went straight DOH.

 

[pilotyip]

Bypass ability

The problem with DOH at first 121 carrier, or DOH at first 121 carrier is that pilots could game the system by working a year at a low-end 121 outfit flying 19-seaters, then move to corporate for years, only to cash in the seniority number later when it holds a good enough seat.

Time spent working OR furloughed from a 121 carrier makes more sense.

You can't game out getting furloughed all that easily, and it is no fault of the pilot.

But you can see real opportunity for shenanigans if you went straight DOH.

If I get that good corp job while furloughed, can I bypass a job at a 121 carrier until I can hold A-320 PIC.

 

[livin'thesim]

I would think yes.

Getting a DOH somewhere and bailing is within a pilot's control.

Getting furloughed is usually not.

If you are senior enough that you could pick voluntary furlough, then you are probably senior enough that you could not game the system.

The problem is that no matter the method, some get a windfall and even worse, some get screwed badly.


What would be a terrible solution is date of commercial cert or ATP.


Further complications involve carriers that close down. Do we treat those pilots as furloughs? Or do we stop their clock?

Do we stop the clock on furloughees?

That means that a low-time PFT pilot could be gaining on and passing high-time dedicated professionals.


The boat probably sailed a long time ago on an NSL.

During the good times, no one feels a need to put this in place, and in bad times it is to easy to see it as a seniority grab.

When there are already so many furloughed, who wants to agree to move even further down the list for someone else's benefit?


The only way we will ever get a national list is if powerful political interests force it through as an act of congress, otherwise you are more likely to be able to solve middle eastern or Irish political wars.

 

[pilotyip]

How about one Gov't owned airline, kinda like GM, crew are all GS-xx workers? What is the history of Gov't owned airlines? Aeroflot good example.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How about one Gov't owned airline, kinda like GM, crew are all GS-xx workers? What is the history of Gov't owned airlines? Aeroflot good example.

I think with the reduction and closing of the GM plant in Yip... you got bbiggger things to worry about....


Why should the govt be putting tax dollars into GM.... if the execs can run a good business plan, then GM should shut down....

Either one can survive in the free market or not....

Agreed?

 

[pilotyip]

I think with the reduction and closing of the GM plant in Yip... you got bbiggger things to worry about....


Why should the govt be putting tax dollars into GM.... if the execs can run a good business plan, then GM should shut down....

Either one can survive in the free market or not....

Agreed?

Didn't read my post from about three months or your memory is slipping. Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. Now the Airlines could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike.
In 1993 the UAW backed GM management into a corner with the threat of a strike. GM elected to enter into a retiree health benefit program that most knew they could not susstain. It cost GM $103B over 15 years and finnlay drove the company into BK.

 

[pilotyip]

I think with the reduction and closing of the GM plant in Yip... you got bbiggger things to worry about....


Why should the govt be putting tax dollars into GM.... if the execs can run a good business plan, then GM should shut down....

Either one can survive in the free market or not....

Agreed?

Of course it is not a free market, unions dictate how companies will operate. Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. As I posted to you about three months ago, the UAW backed GM management into a corner to accept retiree health benefits that cost he company $103B over the last 15 years. GM management knew they could not afford it unless they increased their yield per unit, i.e. sell SUV’s. The result woud be BK. Now the Airlines could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

back to blaming the woes on unions.....