National Seniority Protocol

[LearLove]

bring it on!!

ditto!!!

DOH from your first 121 carrier.

 

[acpilot]

ditto!!!

DOH from your first 121 carrier.

What about the other secotrs of aviation? 91, 135, and 137 for example. Aren't you guys looking for an all inculsive list that will help ALL pilots?

Why not from your first PIC type (or type waiver)?

 

[superfreight208]

This needs to be implemented!!

 

[FRACTRASH]

lllklllkkkoll

 

[lookin4better]

ditto!!!

DOH from your first 121 carrier.

sounds good enough... start at Eagle, work 6 months and go fly 135 or 91... seems fair...after all this is about helping ALL pilots right?

You sure cant think 121 is some " club " when its the easiest flying job out there to get with the least amount of experience needed ( regional level ) ... no way you could give more credit to a pilot at Mesa/RAH/Skywest over a pilot with 5 types flying charter/corporate ( a pilot is a pilot ) .... just a thought..

Bring on the list...

 

[OHGOON]

Great idea and 50 yrs overdue. The only fair way is to make the DOH the day you earned your ATP. It would make that license finally mean something again and it would motivate all to obtain it as fast as possible whether you are military or civilian.

Now the reality check.

Pilots are usually only for something that helps them personally and against everything else that might move things forward for the whole profession. Waiting for that to change......well, hell may freeze over first!

Hope I'm wrong, but not holding my breath!

 

[belchfire]

It mentions air carrier...that would include 135. Heck, I don't know-that would give me a seniority date in '98...2000 if they go 121 carrier, 2004 I think is when we voted the teamsters in.

Now if they get their noses in the air and don't recognize 135 operations as Air Carriers per the FAR's they will have a tough time selling it.

It's not a bad idea overall. There are so many variables that would screw people though I can't see it happening. For instance if they picked "date of first turbojet type rating" some kids that got a free type in a bizjet of some sort at a young age would clobber me-even though my first jet type rating was in a 744 and I had been type rated in a turboprop years before.

And my years as an A&P while I built time for ratings and earned a degree would count for nothing...

It's a good idea and to be sure to the detriment of management's corruption (at all air carriers) it should be pursued.

I just don't see how it could be done equitably and without discrimination. Further I just survived a furlough. Guys that got hired after me are pretty much gone...but had this been in place some of those guys would be replacing me and I would be on the street because of their years at brand X.

Guys that got their first 121 job later in life could really be screwed by a kid with SJS...

 

[saabservant]

ALPA is a labor union representing part 121 carriers which have union contracts. I don't follow how it could grant seniority to 135 pilots at non-union carriers.
The underlying premise behind the resolution is to place all alpa pilots under one list, which counters whipsawing and outsourcing, and provides job protection to dues-paying, union members.
If 135 guys want to start paying dues to alpa in order to be included on the list, even though they have no union representation on property, ok, but why would they do that?
I would be more convinced if the 135 pilots started organizing now. We all know that won't happen.....

 

[livin'thesim]

What about someone who gets an ATP in a weekend course? I know just such an individual, although how he passed is beyond me. He then dropped out of flying for some time before getting back into it. Should all those years count for him?

For my money, total time at a union 121 carriers makes the most sense.

 

[whiskytangofoxt]

iiiiii

 

[DoinTime]

For my money, total time at a union 121 carriers makes the most sense.

If carriers with representation other than ALPA are willing to reciprocate on equal terms with "the list" I bet they will be included. If not, you can bet them being excluded. The thought of time served outside of this industry being counted is completely ridiculous as well.

 

[dh82dvr]

I didn't read all the posts but what about date of commercial licence or military equivalent for entry to the seniority list, however min experience will still determine if you are hired anywhere.

 

[flyboyike]

Nationwide cock block is more like it. Be careful what you wish for you might get it.

Amen.

 

[CEO silly sap]

Let's pretend for a moment that this system was in place and UAL furloughs, say, 3000 and enters bankruptcy. Of these pilots, let's say 2000 want to stay in aviation and 1500 want to take advantage of this concept. Of the airlines that are hiring right now, how many are ALPA carriers?

Delta (possibly)
Pinnacle maybe
ASA ?
Air Canada Jazz ?
Air Midwest no
Air Transat ?
Air Wisconsin ?
Alaska no
Aloha Island Air - sure
American Eagle no
ASTAR Air Cargo ?
Atlantic Southeast ?
Atlas Air Cargo ?
Comair No
CommutAir ?
Continental no
ExpressJet no
FedEx no
Freedom Airlines no
Gemini Air Cargo ?
Hawaiian no
Mesa Airlines no
Mesaba possibly
Midwest Airlines ?
Polar Air Cargo ?
PSA ?
Ryan ?
Spirit no
Trans States Airlines no

Of these carriers, how many have comparable pay vacancies? ie Captain slots? Are there 1500 positions among these carriers? How many experienced pilots are on the street now?

What if you were paid by the longevity instead of they type of aircraft. what if all the regionals had the same contract... similar to parity plus one percent back in the day. what would happen then?

 

[Jetpipeovht]

I didn't read all the posts but what about date of commercial licence or military equivalent for entry to the seniority list, however min experience will still determine if you are hired anywhere.

Date of Commercial License issue is the most fair, IMO. Not all career pilots have an ATP.

For you military folks that crossed over to CIVILIAN aviation? It would be the date you crossed over or converted your license.

Military seniority (not experience, ability, knowledge..that would count for you getting a job of course) BUT YOUR SENIORITY does not mean SH*T in the Civilian world, IMO. Unless the Military can reciprocate.

My 2 cents.

 

[knightflyer]

Why isn't this a sticky on the Majors Forum? :bomb:

 

[lookin4better]

Why isn't this a sticky on the Majors Forum? :bomb:

Because they know it wont happen .... over here its a pipe dream... never going to happen. Interesting debate though.... i guess.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If one wants a NSL, then one has to argue why managment will agree to it... or how will a NSL have to be structured for mgmnt to agree to it....

 

[Nevets]

If one wants a NSL, then one has to argue why managment will agree to it... or how will a NSL have to be structured for mgmnt to agree to it....

Yeah, its probably going to take self help to get anything like this.

 

[pilotyip]

Why would management care?

Yeah, its probably going to take self help to get anything like this, If one wants a NSL, then one has to argue why managment will agree to it... or how will a NSL have to be structured for mgmnt to agree to it....

An union airline has an open seat for an A-320 Captain. Go to Union's NSL, pick the next in line, pay him for equipment and time on the list. Makes no difference to them who fills the seat, the cost is the same. Except for those new non-union airlines that don't believe in a NSL.