National Seniority ist article

[JoeMerchant]

which screws military guys. hence, one of the many problems with such a 'solution.'

A lot of military guys are getting screwed at United, USAirways, etc....How many military guys at TWA, Eastern, Braniff, etc....got screwed....This is a union issue and a 121 issue....

You're right that they won't support this...doesn't really matter because it isn't going to happen anyway....We are just going to piss and moan about the current situation.....That will be fair for all...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Then there will never be a national list. Sorry, but a pilot with 500 hours starting at Mesa is not starting at the same level job as a pilot with 5000 hours starting at Southwest or Delta. No way should a Mesa pilot hired today go ahead of a Southwest or Delta pilot hired tomorrow.

Fine...then it won't happen and we can all live with consequences...I'm fine with that too.....

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Joe, in all your brilliance, how would you suggest implementing a national seniority list?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe, in all your brilliance, how would you suggest implementing a national seniority list?

1. All the union carriers agree to a national list.

2. Those union carriers then negotiate said list into their PWA.

3. Don't worry...it will never happen...We will continue to fight each other as we defend our "turf".....

 

[Jetjockey]

Then there will never be a national list. Sorry, but a pilot with 500 hours starting at Mesa is not starting at the same level job as a pilot with 5000 hours starting at Southwest or Delta. No way should a Mesa pilot hired today go ahead of a Southwest or Delta pilot hired tomorrow.

For argument's sake...........(lord knows that's why this place was created) Why?

A pilot who decides to pursue a career in the military should have domain over a pilot who decides to carry passengers? What's the logic there? I see them as two separate career paths.

 

[cybourg10]

"The Fee For Departure Committee spent 1.5 years developing a plan for the Fee For Departure airlines. One list is possible and a step by step plan and been submitted and approved by the ALPA BOD. It might be purdent to contact your reps and ask them for a copy of the plan OR call them and have a conversation regarding the plan. United and the Majors have also started formulating a plan to create job security.

In the last Executive Board DELTA/UNITED/CAL and all the ALPA FFD airlines/partners engaged in this exact debate."

I copied and pasted this from the XJT pilot forum, this was posted by an ALPA National VP from XJT. I flew with him recently and he educated me a little on this subject but this is a serious issue and ALPA has started the long process of obtaining a national seniority list......

 

[JoeMerchant]

"The Fee For Departure Committee spent 1.5 years developing a plan for the Fee For Departure airlines. One list is possible and a step by step plan and been submitted and approved by the ALPA BOD. It might be purdent to contact your reps and ask them for a copy of the plan OR call them and have a conversation regarding the plan. United and the Majors have also started formulating a plan to create job security.

In the last Executive Board DELTA/UNITED/CAL and all the ALPA FFD airlines/partners engaged in this exact debate."

I copied and pasted this from the XJT pilot forum, this was posted by an ALPA National VP from XJT. I flew with him recently and he educated me a little on this subject but this is a serious issue and ALPA has started the long process of obtaining a national seniority list......

The United pilots actually started the ball rolling.....Nothing like mortality to give some religion.....

 

[cybourg10]

The United pilots actually started the ball rolling.....Nothing like mortality to give some religion.....

Yea but at this point I'll take what I can get, question is do they have enough will power to see this thing all the way through?

 

[Colonel Savage]

The national union/seniority list issue was brought up over thirty years ago when deregulation first was proposed by Alfred Kahn and the Carter Administration. A grassroots movement was led by rank and file line pilots and some LEC's out of concern for what a deregulated industry would mean for labor, but it was rejected by those in charge at ALPA National.

 

[becket]

If seniority doesn't work in a shrinking industry.... what does work?

The lowest bidder. I can see it now. A reverse Ebay style auctions for each airline and it's jobs. The lowest qualified bidder gets the job. There are thousands of guys out there that will left seat a 777 for 55k a year. Maybe less. That's who would end up staffing this nations airlines.

The seniority system sucks but at least it's a level playing field.

 

[michael707767]

For argument's sake...........(lord knows that's why this place was created) Why?

A pilot who decides to pursue a career in the military should have domain over a pilot who decides to carry passengers? What's the logic there? I see them as two separate career paths.

I'm not just talking about the military. There was a guy in my new hire class at Delta, former corporate pilot, and this was his first 121 job. Given the popularity of corporate flying now, how would you handle a guy who got hired at a regional, left for many years, then comes back to 121 flying? Does he/she still keep their DOH from their first 121 job?

The logic there is that a job with a major is a better job than a job with a regional. When pilots stop leaving regionals to go to a major, you will have an argument that the two dates of hire are equal.

Very few mergers have ever gone DOH, yet you are proposing a national list that would re-order the lists that exist at many companies? Do you think that will really work?

 

[HalinTexas]

The lowest bidder. I can see it now. A reverse Ebay style auctions for each airline and it's jobs. The lowest qualified bidder gets the job. There are thousands of guys out there that will left seat a 777 for 55k a year. Maybe less. That's who would end up staffing this nations airlines.

The seniority system sucks but at least it's a level playing field.

Unless your airline goes out of business.

 

[HalinTexas]

Date of initial issuance of your ATP, and DOH at a participating company (hopefully all of them will be participating), whichever comes later. Until then, you're an apprentice.

My example: ATP in 8/1993. Hired at TSA 11/1993. So my "slot" on the list is 11/1993. But, at the moment, I'm unemployed. So where do I fit now?

Now, this could only apply to pay or company seniority, or both.

The real problem is getting companies on board. Why would they hire someone, like me, that's worked for two ALPA carriers for a total of 15 years and pay them at that rate, when they can pay someone at the five year rate, or worse, start their own ab initio program and start them at first year rate?

To make this meaningful, the companies would have to be compelled to hire first from this list if someone is furloughed or unemployed do to BK.

This is a nice topic for discussion (argument, flaming, etc.), but it will never happen.

 

[KCPilot]

A lot of military guys are getting screwed at United, USAirways, etc....How many military guys at TWA, Eastern, Braniff, etc....got screwed....This is a union issue and a 121 issue....

You're right that they won't support this...doesn't really matter because it isn't going to happen anyway....We are just going to piss and moan about the current situation.....That will be fair for all...

Welcome to life. Now grow up and get over it!

 

[Captain X]

1. All the union carriers agree to a national list.

2. Those union carriers then negotiate said list into their PWA.

3. Don't worry...it will never happen...We will continue to fight each other as we defend our "turf".....

It would never make it past step 1.