Name this plane

[Spooky 1]

Looks like someone new owns this aircraft. Glad to see that it is still around and not cut up like so many intersting prototypes of the past. The guy who owned it while it was in ABQ used to own a couple of DH106-4C's. A couple of other guys and myself ferried one of them to ORD back in around 1976. It sat there for years before being cut up and removed. To bad as it was one of the last flying examples of the Comet anywhere, much less the United States. The FAA had revoked or suspended the guys ticket for ferrying the McDonnell 220 from Deer Park in AZ over to ABQ without any written authorization. He probably would have been a part of the crew to take the Comet up to ORD, if he had a valid ticket at the time. He did ride along with us though. Nerves of steel!

 

[bafanguy]

Spooky,


I think I remember seeing that Comet in ORD in years past. Who was going to use it ? I think I have a dim memory of some scuttlebutt but can't be sure.

By the way, where does one go to Comet school ?

 

[Spooky 1]

Long reply sorry

Spooky,


I think I remember seeing that Comet in ORD in years past. Who was going to use it ? I think I have a dim memory of some scuttlebutt but can't be sure.

By the way, where does one go to Comet school ?

Well its a long story but the deal was the owner had bought three Comets from Mexiacana Airlines down in MEX. They were surplused after Mexiacana replaced them with the B727's. Two of them made their way to ABQ with Mexicana crews and the third one never made it out of MEX. The two sat there in ABQ for several years while the new owner (the same guy who owned the McDonnell 220), tried to find a buyer. Finally he found a guy in "Naked City Indiana" who wanted to put the aircraft into service as a flying club type of operation. The Naked City guy bought one airplance and spares for chunk change with the provisions that the airplane be delivered to ORD. There was a fellow who had gone to school on the aircraft some 10 or so years prior to this and he was enlisted as the FE. Two pilots including myself were contacted and offered a sum of money (can't remember how much) to ferry the thing to ORD. Since neither of us had ANY experience in the Comet, we applied for and were issued a one time ferry authorization from, believe it or not the Van Nuys FSDO, or what ever it was called then. The only condition was that we takeoff and make a full stop landing at ABQ, before proceeding to ORD. The other guy went down to ABQ and spent a day or two familiarizing himself with the airplane and manuals along with the FE. I showed up the night before and after some liquid courage that evening joined the others for the first flight the next morning.

We taxied out for takeoff and all the enlisted Air Force guys at Kirkland stood along the taxiways with there hats over their hearts. I was really starting to regret my bravado at this point. To top it off the seller who was in the navigators seat, daughter called him just prior to us closing the door and pleaded that he not go on this flight. Well we did the one takeoff and landing, (I was the FAGO, no use wasting valuable experience on a guy like me), and during the approach discovered that the airspeed indicators were at times as much as 60 kts different. The aircraft started to shudder on short final and after touchdown we discovered that what we were feeling was probably the onset of a stall. None the less the other guy actually squeaked it on with out any further problems.

We sat around for about an hour trying to convince ourselves that everthing would work out fine if we took it as is. Our ferry permit required us to maintain VMC and daylight conditions for the entire trip and daylight was dwindling away while we thought things over.

Took off about an hour later which would put us into ORD around dusk at best.
Won't go into all the crazy stuff that happened in those 2+ hours, but we got it on the ground and parked it over at the old Butler ramp. Butler was on strike and it took them about an hour to get a stair out to the aircraft. We polished off some more scotch while congratulating ourselves on our superior airmanship. The new owner showed up outside the aircraft with one of his club memebers, Ms Nude World USA, or something like that. The guy was a a parapalegic and could not board the aircraft himself, but his lady joined us for a photo session and somewhere I still have a few of those pictures. Who says aviation is not great?

At any rate we left the aircraft there and returned to the west coast smug in our mind that we had really pulled something off. Six months forward, and the new owner wants someone to move the aircraft over to an airport closer to his Naked City Indiana operation. I was not available for this job, so the original crew plus a new guy friend of mine showed at ORD to move the airplane. Finally the FAA started thinking about just what was going on and stepped in, said that this airplane was not ever going anywhere in the condition that it had deteriorated to over the last six months. So the last flight on this aircraft was the one six months earlier.

Kind of the end of the story for myself. I had some manuals and gave them to some TWA pilot who was trying to save aircraft and ship it to the Smithsonian. Obviously it never happened. The aircraft was badly vandalized and finally cut up by the airport authorities. The story that I have briefly repeated here is fairly well documented with pictures to boot in a really nice (and expensive) coffee table book that covers the history of all the Comet ever made.

The sister ship to this aircraft is up at Paine Field in Washington and slowly being restored by personnel from the Boeing Museam.

The fellow who operated as FE was a Belgium guy who later went on to fly for a number of the early B747 freighter operations. The other guy who flew left seat worked at the same shop you worked for. Last time I saw him he was a DSS instructor on the B767. prior to this we had kept kind of busy ferrying Electras and Boeings in and out of desert storage facilities out here in the west.

All is well that ends well as BA would say!

 

[bafanguy]

Spooky,


Fabulous story !! I had remembered something about a nudist colony but didn't want to say to keep the thread from taking a tangent ( feel free now, guys ). Roselawn, IN is where the nudist colony is. We had a DC3 capt get in a bit of trouble for doing a low pass over the "facility" many years ago. I even remembered the "Miss Nude World" angle. Geritol...the Breakfast of Champions.

I guess you've heard about the changes in the Training Dept at the "shop". DSS rules !!

Thanks for the story.

 

[Geigo]

For those of you that have an extra 1/4 million burning a hole in your pocket this 220 is on TAP right now.

"FLYING condition. Totally cool, rare, & unique. For background info, search "McDonnell 220". $255,000/ possible trade"

 

[Viffer]

You will never find a pilot with any Jetstar experience that doesn't have anything but very high regard for the type, myself included. I was lucky to have flown them for a few years. They were the best handing, smoothest, most stable airplanes I've ever come across. It is a true pilots airplane if there ever was one. And from an economic standpoint, we had figured we could buy and operate a good Jetstar for 10 years for the cost just to buy a Lear 60, which is nothing but a complete P.O.S. compared to the Lockheed. All fuel included. I could also flight plan an Aspen departure, six pax, meeting the Lindz 7.5% gradient engine out to 14,000 ft, and be able to take enough fuel to fly IFR to Chicago up to 50 deg. F. Not bad for a $1 million airplane.

The saddest fact of the Jetstar world is that because they endure time so well, the one's that remain have fallen into the hands of the cheapest owners out there, who are literally destroying them due to poor, or lack of proper maintenence. They want a real big jet with the budget of a King Air. Jetstars are big airframes, and require a chief of maintenence who knows the system and truly understands the airplane. Those guys are also a dying breed. I am currently watching the ones I used to fly be slowly turned into scrap metal due to an owner who refuses to keep it maintained properly. Really a shame for what was such a great airplane.

If any of you guy's ever get the chance to fly one take it! They certainly don't build airplanes like that anymore, and I can't imagine a better flying airplane. Kelly Johnson just nailed this one.

 

[slowto250]

The "Starjet" was originally designed as an executive transport for military brass. LBJ used one to fly into, and out of his TX ranch during his presidency. Phenomenal aircraft for it's time, typical of Kelly Johnson's brililance, as a previous poster pointed out. Had the pleasure of flying them for a few years. Maybe the best bizjet ever ?!?! Quite a few celebs operated them at that time. Wayne Newton and Kenny Rogers come immediately to mind. The later version Jetstar II's were less thirsty and had increased range, but didn't sound as sweet as the old dash series Pratt's.

 

[Spooky 1]

You will never find a pilot with any Jetstar experience that doesn't have anything but very high regard for the type, myself included. I was lucky to have flown them for a few years. They were the best handing, smoothest, most stable airplanes I've ever come across. It is a true pilots airplane if there ever was one. And from an economic standpoint, we had figured we could buy and operate a good Jetstar for 10 years for the cost just to buy a Lear 60, which is nothing but a complete P.O.S. compared to the Lockheed. All fuel included. I could also flight plan an Aspen departure, six pax, meeting the Lindz 7.5% gradient engine out to 14,000 ft, and be able to take enough fuel to fly IFR to Chicago up to 50 deg. F. Not bad for a $1 million airplane.

The saddest fact of the Jetstar world is that because they endure time so well, the one's that remain have fallen into the hands of the cheapest owners out there, who are literally destroying them due to poor, or lack of proper maintenence. They want a real big jet with the budget of a King Air. Jetstars are big airframes, and require a chief of maintenence who knows the system and truly understands the airplane. Those guys are also a dying breed. I am currently watching the ones I used to fly be slowly turned into scrap metal due to an owner who refuses to keep it maintained properly. Really a shame for what was such a great airplane.

If any of you guy's ever get the chance to fly one take it! They certainly don't build airplanes like that anymore, and I can't imagine a better flying airplane. Kelly Johnson just nailed this one.

No question about it, if it was build by Lockheed if probably flew great, whether it was a JetStar, L1011, L188, or a Connie. All great flying machines!

 

[Jurasic jets]

Those old Jetstars were built by the New York Bridge and Truss Company.....Not only is it a big gas guzzling airplanne it is built closer to a sherman tank than one of them new fangled jets. Sabres are almost as tough once you get by the corrosion.

JJ

 

[Viffer]

Those old Jetstars were built by the New York Bridge and Truss Company.....Not only is it a big gas guzzling airplanne it is built closer to a sherman tank than one of them new fangled jets. Sabres are almost as tough once you get by the corrosion.

JJ

As one who has as much Sabre time as Jetstar time, I can tell you for a fact that the Sabre is not even in the same league as the Jetstar in terms of toughness, or design and build quality. There is a reason for the 10,000 life limit on the Sabreliner. It was designed as a disposable airframe, and just doesn't hold up to the Lockheed. It is a nice flying jet, but the components and airframe are inferior. This is not a slam on the Sabre, but more an acknowledgement to the Lockheed. A Sabre cannot suffer sitting on the ground for more than a few days without some systems not working, or worse. A Lockheed could sit for years without anything failing. Two to be exact, as I can tell you. And for the record the Sabre is way more of a gas guzzler once you factor in passenger count, speed, size etc. Our Sabre couldn't do half the job the Lockheeds could. Of course none of this means squat these day's, as they are both more relics of the past than a viable jet option. Time moves on I suppose...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Spooky,


I think I remember seeing that Comet in ORD in years past. Who was going to use it ? I think I have a dim memory of some scuttlebutt but can't be sure.

By the way, where does one go to Comet school ?

BAFAN BUMP

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The "Starjet" was originally designed as an executive transport for military brass. LBJ used one to fly into, and out of his TX ranch during his presidency. Phenomenal aircraft for it's time, typical of Kelly Johnson's brililance, as a previous poster pointed out. Had the pleasure of flying them for a few years. Maybe the best bizjet ever ?!?! Quite a few celebs operated them at that time. Wayne Newton and Kenny Rogers come immediately to mind. The later version Jetstar II's were less thirsty and had increased range, but didn't sound as sweet as the old dash series Pratt's.

The King has one on display across the street from the Jungle Room.

Very disapointed in all posters for not mentioning Goldfinger. I mean really guys, when you wake up in a Jetstar and a blond says my name is PussieGalore, you never forget....the jet that it was said in....

I was under the belief that the Jetstar was orginally designed/built to be Air Force Two. IOW, VP transport.... anyone...??

 

[Viffer]

I was under the belief that the Jetstar was orginally designed/built to be Air Force Two. IOW, VP transport.... anyone...??

The Jetstar was competing for the government VIP transport contract at the same time the Sabreliner was going for the utility transport contract. Lockheed beat out MD, and the Sabre won it's program. The Jetstar was built as the C-140 for the government/ military. Not long into it's contract, the government decided to change a large number of airframe purchases from C-140's to the much cheaper Sabreliners, and consequently Lockheed was facing huge losses on the project. That is when they decided to market the Jetstar to the civilian market. They lost their shirts on it, due to politics. It did serve presidents and government VIP's, in the 89th at Andrews. I was taught how to fly them from one of the guys that ran that fleet. All in all there was only about 230-240 of them produced. This is the only civilian airplane ever designed by the 'skunk works' of Kelly Johnson, and his team designed it in something like 240 days. It flew first with two British engines because the Pratts it was meant for were not available in time, because of the fast design process. I have heard that one reason that it was designed for four engines was that the rules of the day were that the president would only fly in four engine airplanes. I can't back that up with a reference, but it is reasonable, and also that there weren't many small engines back then that would worked well with just two.

 

[bafanguy]

The King has one on display across the street from the Jungle Room.

Rez,

Thought there's Elvis' CV880 on display at Graceland. So, there's also a Jetstar too ? Never been there personally.

Many years ago in MIA, I met the guy who claimed to have sold Elvis the -880. He said he'd met with him to sell him a -707, but had one of those postcards in his briefcase with an -880 on it that DL used to put in the seatback pockets.

Elvis saw it and said he wanted "....one of those...". And, so goes the story...