My response to SWA package!

[jonjuan]

PCL....not true...you cannot penalize the pilots from the stronger airline just because your upgrade time @ weaker, significantly lower paying airline was EXPECTED To be quicker.

As a bit of an aside, what's the expectation to upgrade for say 2007 hires? 2011 hires?

 

[SWA/FO]

5 years

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

.On another note, one of my friends says y'all are dissecting the pay numbers in great detail on your forum. First, I'm quite sure SWAPA's numbers are factual. QUOTE]

On my "WHAT IF" page, for the 12 month period of May 2010 to May 2011, the example they provide is using a total of 13 months. They included both May 2010 and May 2011 in their calculations. Is that factual? I haven't paricipated on the internal board concerning this topic, but I did read of another pilot that found the same inaccuracy so I checked mine. Maybe we are just to anomolies.

 

[Daddy]

I think you and many others will be quite disappointed when this is all said and done.

No matter what, some folks are going to be disappointed. If you guys challenge Gary on a rejected deal, it is very possible you could be out of a job period. I know some of you are hanging your hat on the idea that he will be forced to integrate you against his will (despite being in a separate holding company), but you should consider the fact that you are putting your jobs on the line for a (possibly) better seniority deal. You might also consider the fact that the four parties negotiating (3 of which are SWA) will carry weight in arbitration. Thus, I don't see arbitration going your way either. Still, if it did....EVEN THEN, with a forced integration and a favorable arbitration, most of your group will not enjoy ANY pay raises on the 717 without SWAPA going to bat for you in the end. Why would they do that if you reject them from the get-go? That's a lot of things that have to happen. You guys are sitting on a winning lottery ticket right now...why are you so hellbent on gambling with it?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

5 years

Is that when the fences come down?

 

[redflyer65]

.On another note, one of my friends says y'all are dissecting the pay numbers in great detail on your forum. First, I'm quite sure SWAPA's numbers are factual. QUOTE]

On my "WHAT IF" page, for the 12 month period of May 2010 to May 2011, the example they provide is using a total of 13 months. They included both May 2010 and May 2011 in their calculations. Is that factual? I haven't paricipated on the internal board concerning this topic, but I did read of another pilot that found the same inaccuracy so I checked mine. Maybe we are just to anomolies.

My best bet would be that it was just a mistake. Did they give the generic data as well? Such as the Trip For Pay rates for all the years?

That's pretty simple to calculate. Most of our lines run 95-105, and with one pickup you are quickly to 120 and you really aren't working that hard. The anomoly guys are hitting 200 trips a month, but they aren't home much.

The nice thing about our system is that you can work as much, or as little as you want. It's pretty sweet. Easy trading with other pilots or the company open time.

RF

 

[SWA/FO]

Is that when the fences come down?

Not sure about fences, but thats what they said every year up until 7/8 year FOs started showing up for training. Kind of an inside joke.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

No matter what, some folks are going to be disappointed. If you guys challenge Gary on a rejected deal, it is very possible you could be out of a job period. I know some of you are hanging your hat on the idea that he will be forced to integrate you against his will (despite being in a separate holding company), but you should consider the fact that you are putting your jobs on the line for a (possibly) better seniority deal. You might also consider the fact that the four parties negotiating (3 of which are SWA) will carry weight in arbitration. Thus, I don't see arbitration going your way either. Still, if it did....EVEN THEN, with a forced integration and a favorable arbitration, most of your group will not enjoy ANY pay raises on the 717 without SWAPA going to bat for you in the end. Why would they do that if you reject them from the get-go? That's a lot of things that have to happen. You guys are sitting on a winning lottery ticket right now...why are you so hellbent on gambling with it?

Thanks Daddy, your concern for our well being touches my heart. Listening to a lot of WN posters on hear, I'd expect all of them to be encouraging us to just push this to arbitration since everyone is so sure that we'll be "out of a job period". It's really ironic that all of you are so concerned about our futures, that you are encouraging us to accept a negotiated settlement. Just goes to show how good the culture really is over there, to be that concerned about the new guys just "getting on the list" and not "out of a job". Man, you guys are so much smarter than we are.

However, I'll leave it up to my MC that speaks for me and my MEC to decide whether I'll even get a chance to vote on negotiated ISL.

 

[PCL_128]

. Absolutely not meant as a threat, it's just that SW pilots will not agree to anything close to that.

And that's exactly why arbitration is part of the process.

 

[jonjuan]

You might also consider the fact that the four parties negotiating (3 of which are SWA) will carry weight in arbitration. Thus, I don't see arbitration going your way either.

Arbitration is controlled by swa/swapa?

 

[Daddy]

Thanks Daddy, your concern for our well being touches my heart. Listening to a lot of WN posters on hear, I'd expect all of them to be encouraging us to just push this to arbitration since everyone is so sure that we'll be "out of a job period". It's really ironic that all of you are so concerned about our futures, that you are encouraging us to accept a negotiated settlement. Just goes to show how good the culture really is over there, to be that concerned about the new guys just "getting on the list" and not "out of a job". Man, you guys are so much smarter than we are.

However, I'll leave it up to my MC that speaks for me and my MEC to decide whether I'll even get a chance to vote on negotiated ISL.

Good luck with that

 

[FlyinGuy]

Thanks Daddy, your concern for our well being touches my heart. Listening to a lot of WN posters on hear, I'd expect all of them to be encouraging us to just push this to arbitration since everyone is so sure that we'll be "out of a job period". It's really ironic that all of you are so concerned about our futures, that you are encouraging us to accept a negotiated settlement. Just goes to show how good the culture really is over there, to be that concerned about the new guys just "getting on the list" and not "out of a job". Man, you guys are so much smarter than we are.

However, I'll leave it up to my MC that speaks for me and my MEC to decide whether I'll even get a chance to vote on negotiated ISL.

I think you should let your MC to lay the hammer down when they go talk to GK tomorrow. Don't you let them push you around...you have rights and you should draw a line in the sand!!! STAND FIRM AT you deserve so much more than you are being offered.

 

[Ty Webb]

No matter what, some folks are going to be disappointed. If you guys challenge Gary on a rejected deal, it is very possible you could be out of a job period.

Your whole statement is built on a false premise.

We are not challenging anything. We agreed to follow the process, and accept the outcome.

• If there is a negotiated settlement, we will follow the process and accept the outcome.

• If there is an Arbitrated Award, we will follow the process and accept the outcome.

There is only one group that threatens to ignore the Agreement if they don't get their way . . . . and it isn't the AirTran pilots.


.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

there is only one group that threatens to ignore the agreement if they don't get their way . . . . And it isn't the airtran pilots.

It's rainin cold hard facts up in here now

 

[Lonestar]

That's pretty simple to calculate. Most of our lines run 95-105, and with one pickup you are quickly to 120 and you really aren't working that hard. The anomoly guys are hitting 200 trips a month, but they aren't home much.


RF

Not that this has anything to do w this discussion, but I recently flew w a captain that got 294 TFP for the month of June. Holy crawp !!!

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I think you should let your MC to lay the hammer down when they go talk to GK tomorrow. Don't you let them push you around...you have rights and you should draw a line in the sand!!! STAND FIRM AT you deserve so much more than you are being offered.

That's better.

BTW we don't even know what is "being offered", do you? Without knowing, how can I or anyone of us even make a decision as to how we'd vote? What would you offer us?

 

[FlyinGuy]

Hey you are Air Tran!!! I think if you walk in there and demand relative (and mean it) Swa will probably roll on SWAPA and you might get close to that.

 

[waveflyer]

That's better.

BTW we don't even know what is "being offered", do you? Without knowing, how can I or anyone of us even make a decision as to how we'd vote? What would you offer us?

This is true. There is nothing to comment on.
There's not a line. There's not even sand yet.

Everyone say Donna SUmmers name backwards.

 

[redflyer65]

And that's exactly why arbitration is part of the process.

You'd be hard pressed to find any Southwest pilots that are worried about arbitration. Your MC seems to have some second thoughts though, I wonder why?

 

[redflyer65]

There is only one group that threatens to ignore the Agreement if they don't get their way . . . . and it isn't the AirTran pilots.


.

Ty,

I don't think I've seen where there was a SW pilot that said they would not honor a ISL from arbitration. But here's a hint..

Watch what Gary does, not SWAPA.

RF