Multi time building

CaptO'Brien

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Hi i was considering saving up all summer to afford to do some multi time building at one of the flight schools that offers it for so cheap (like $60 an hour) whats the deal with these schools? how is it so cheap? is it looked down on by employers? ive heard that a couple people log time all in the same plane...hows that work? over all is doing this kinda thing really worth it? will it help me snag a multi job or will it just be a waste of my money? thanks..
 

Kream926

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find a friend who has a twin....
 

cforst513

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i heard about one of these schools in florida called Ari-Ben Aviator. do a search here. what you do is you get a twin with another pilot for like 6 hours or something, and if you pay for 100 hours, you are safety pilot for 50hrs and actually flying for the other 50 hours. do a search here for Ari-Ben and go to www.pprune.org (i think that's the URL) and there's a whole section devoted to this topic.
 

CaptO'Brien

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so if you go in on 100 hours and your saftey pilot you get to log 50 PIC and the other 50 as?
 

Kream926

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pic, as long as one is "under" the hood, both can act as PIC as long as both have at least private in same cat. and class and a valid medical
 

Fly_Chick

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Get experience in different types of aircraft if at all possible. This goes for the single engine as well as the multi. Different experiences will expand your knowledge and insight into flying and how aircraft perform.

Lets say you have 800 hours in a C152, 100 hours in an Arrow, and 100 hours in a Seminole. You meet the 1000/100 minimums.

Compare the knowledge you will have with 800 hours of single time in a combination of C140, C152, C172, Champ, cherokee 140, Warrior, Grumman, etc; 100 hours split between Arrow, RG, Mooney,etc; 100 hours in Duchess, Seminole, Seneca, Aztec, etc.

I do not know how it is perceived when interviewing if you fly just one type of plane. I know the benefits of flying different types of planes will greatly enhance your knowledge and understanding of CG, weight and balance, performance, systems, system failures, troubleshooting...
 

BushwickBill

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Most jobs want you to have 100 multi. So lets say you get all your ratings and you now have about 30 multi engine hours, 15 for multi commercial and 15 for MEI. Its next to impossible to find a flight school that has a multi engine airplane you can teach in. So now you have to pay for another 70 hours of multi time. 7000 bucks at 100 an hour and even if you split it with your buddy its hard to find 200 dollar multi time on the west cost. Lets face it we are all screwed only ritch people will become pro pilots - just like europe. I have had my MEI and have only logged 3 hours teaching multi.
 

100LL... Again!

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Get the MEI and try to teach some multi.

You won't learn crap just tooling around with both engines turning.

If you MUST split time, do LOTS of one-engine approaches. A LOT of them.
 

joepilot29

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I am hoping to to Ari ben's 50 multi time build in about a week. That will get me to about 125 multi. One nice thing about being an MEI is I can log it all dual given instead of safety pilot. Hopefully they will not have a problem with that. I plan to use the expierence to get my actual time up and knock the dust off my instrument procedures. Gonna be approach after approach.
 

HMR

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BushwickBill said:
Lets face it we are all screwed only ritch people will become pro pilots - just like europe. I have had my MEI and have only logged 3 hours teaching multi.
:confused:You need to do a better job recruiting students. I was an instructor in SoCal a few years back. I got my MEI and gave 500hrs. dual in less than 18 months. I was at a school with 1 (sometimes 2) Duchess'. We had 15+ instructors all wrangling for multi-time and our rates were some of the highest in SoCal. I got my buddy a job there and now he's doing ~40hrs/month in the Duchess. It's not the school (the place sucks), it's his attitude and professionalism that keep him busy.

I don't have any problems with guys renting a twin to build time (and, hopefully, experience). I was fortunate I didn't have to spend money for multi-time since I was flat broke. FWIW-I learned more instructing guys how to fly Duchess', Senecas and King Airs than I ever did flying them myself.

Good Luck!!!
 

BushwickBill

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Hey whats the name of that school...??? I've been networking like crazy. There are only 2 schools in northern california that have multi planes available. A buddy works and one of the schools and he never gets to fly it because no one wants multi training. The other school charged me for my interview ride without telling me they were going to and had 3 other instructors there who were desperate for work. I was expected to find my own students and I had the strong impression that you had to seriously pay your dues before you were allowed to instruct multi. Its not like I haven't been trying. My whole career is hinged on the multi thing. I jump on every oportunity but they are few and far between.

Help!

Thanks
 
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CaptO'Brien

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Is it hard to get a job as a MEI or even just start a job as an instructor? what happens if you dont get hired by your school to instruct? what other school is gonna want to hire an instructor from elsewhere when they have a ton of em going through their program every year? only thing is im not exatcly sure if i am the best teacher and if i instruct i want to be able to teach good enough to put good pilots into the industry...i know my stuff but i dont really know how well i can teach it to others. thats why i was thinkin of these time building programs for multi..i have 250 hours with a CPL, multi IFR but im gonna need more hours..even then i dont know if i can get onto a flying job cause i would only have about 350 with about 100-140 multi..so maybe instructing is the best way to go..still not sure what i want to do ...so many ways you can go in this industry i just want to pick the right route!
 

casper1nine

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My whole career is hinged on the multi thing.
getting those hours can be as simple as coming up with a rather modest amount of money. hopefully your future and your career are hinged on something more significant than that.

-casper
 

joepilot29

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CaptO'Brien said:
Is it hard to get a job as a MEI or even just start a job as an instructor? what happens if you dont get hired by your school to instruct?
I wouldn't worry about not getting hired by your school. The school I went to did not hire me so I didn't get that "guarenteed interview." I can get the same interviews that they offered. There are instructing jobs to be had everywhere. Just have to look and be willing to relocate. I have instructed for awhile, been through one school going out of business and even relocated back to FL. I just need about 50 multi to put into the airline minimums range. I wouldn't sweat it. I didn't want to instruct, but I have actually enjoyed sometimes.
 

Steve

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Why go out and spend tons of money on buying multi time? If you a CFII try and load up on IFR students and work on meeting the Part 135 IFR mins. With the way the regionals are hiring you shouldn't have too much trouble getting a job with a 135 cargo outfit like Amerifreight or Flight Express. They usually dont care how much multi you have as long as your instrument skills are good.
 

BushwickBill

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getting those hours can be as simple as coming up with a rather modest amount of money. hopefully your future and your career are hinged on something more significant than that

casper1nine

Well I would hope that myself. Although multi seems to be very important to all those employers out there. Seems like thats how the whole career thingy is going to start. I'm not sure if you ever did work as a cfi but the way you speak of "modist amounts of money" makes me think you didn't. Lets put it very simply I would be lucky to save 1000 bucks over a 6 month period.:eek:
 

casper1nine

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my point to you is this:

-if you are counting on getting hired at a regional with 600TT and 100ME, good luck. i am sure it happens for some folks, and we all hear about JOEpilot who go ON with crazyazz low time, but realize who you are going to be competing against for those jobs. if it were all 600 hour pilots, great, but in reality you will be astonished by the variety of experience levels that a 600 hour pilot has to compete against for a job at a regional. i am not saying that you won't make it, but just be aware.

-more than likely, with your total time in this post, there are no GREAT career opportunities for you, even with 100 hours of seneca time, or what ever, you need more than just multi time. when i had students and was instructing regularly (over 100 hours a month sometimes) many of them were aiming for a career in aviation, and were always getting hung up on the multi thing.... should i go to ATP? they do all their training in twins.... should i go to ABC school, when i finish, i will have 200 hours of seneca time..... blah blah blah. the thing to consider is that even if you get the coveted twin time very early in your flying, it may be quite a while until you will actually get to fly a multi-engine airplane. will you even be current, let alone proficient in twins when you are actually competative for good jobs in terms of your total time?

-at 500 some odd hours you are barely halfway to being "employable" in all but fluke circumstances or third rate jobs. as a previous poster stated, a good goal with your hours might be aiming for the P135 mins. while your are building your total time (make it diverse and instrument rich), save your money, get a job tending bar if your must, and when you are around 1000 hours total, then buy what multi hours you still need. chances are that between now and then, small opportunities will pop up here and there to contribute to your multi-total, and you won't have to buy nearly as many hours as you need today.

-step up your flight instruction. if you are not flying at least 50 hours a month, and billing at least 80, you might consider changing schools. you may also want to consider instructing outside the school to augment what they are paying you. when i was instructing thru a school, they only paid me $17 out of every hour i billed. when i instructed on the side, i charged $50/hour and shared it all with ME!

-if you lack your multi ratings, get those. all the way thru mei. that will enable you to take advantage of opportunities as they come up. the only other hours that i would recommend "buying" right now, would be enough to meet the insurance mins for twin rental where ever you fly (provided that they are at an attainable level). you never know when being ABLE to rent the plane might come in handy.

-quality NETWORKING should be your primary goal right now. look around for the post about the "rouge v. professional." identify persons in your area that have the characteristics of the latter and befriend them. avoid the rouges at all cost. bend yourself into the patterns and ways of the professional.

-in the grand scheme of things, the money is insignificant. if you find yourself in some great position to grab an opportunity, but lack those 50-100 multi hours, get creative. you WILL find the money.

i am not trying to bust your balls on this, and my advice is probably totally irrelevant to your personal situation, but i hope you can see the bigger picture, in that there is more to getting hired than just 100 hours of bug smashing in a seminole.

-casper1nine
 
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BushwickBill

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i am not trying to bust your balls on this, and my advice is probably totally irrelevant to your personal situation, but i hope you can see the bigger picture, in that there is more to getting hired than just 100 hours of bug smashing in a seminole.
Well I would hope so. Although that much bug smashing would cost you 20,000 bucks. Which brings me back to what I was saying: only spoild rich kids or people with family that have access to free flight time will be involved with flying in the future. SO all you guys who have 3k of time and aren't worried about it, the likelyhood that your going to be working with some guy that never had to lift a finger to get where he's at will be quite high. Or you'll be working with someone who was able to buy his seat. Like all the pay for training people going into Express Jet and ASA delta through FSI - which I decided not to do. Mostly because I coudln't afford to.
 

casper1nine

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after paying off over 30K in debt from getting ratings and buying some multi time, and after giving over 800 hours of dual instruction, i can say that "i feel your pain" on the multi situation. in a sense, your are right, that as time goes by the percentage of "pay to play" pilots is ever increasing, but that is a trend that would take a major action to break. all i am trying to really say to you is that at 550 hours, the multi time can wait. who knows, maybe after flying another couple of hundred hours, you may be in a position better able to afford purchasing a block of twin time, or you may find that you don't need as much, due to the bits and pieces that for most of us seem to accumulate along the way. just my .02 cents, 'cause i've been there. best of luck.

caZper1Niner
 
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