MU-2 Study

[Vector4fun]

I'm curious what icing problems you had with the MU-2? I don't have the experience in the aircraft you do, but I've been in a J model that looked like a freaking snow cone when it landed, and didn't have any flying quality problems. Granted, the aircraft was very light.


Not arguing, just curious....

 

[GIVDrvr]

Flew the Marquise four nights a week for four winters in the NorthEast..UCA,DET,BDL,BKL,BWI,TEB,RIC,BOS,MDW....saw most of the ugly side of icing one will ever encounter. Airplane was a champ all the way.

 

[TDTURBO]

And as for Midway, I never said one thing about preventing flights over populated areas, I just added the point that what would the reaction have been like if either of these two planes killed a few people on the ground in each of the accidents? The news coverage and calls for grounding it would be MUCH louder. Though Midway did have it's share of planes crashing off airport into residential areas in the mid 1900's, but in my opinion, you live near an airport, you should expect a slight risk of an accident, but you should hope that the accident didn't result from the responsible parties turning a blind eye to a problem with the aircraft.

Speaking of MDW and MU-2's, I was there when one crashed, it landed over gross in the middle of the field on the grass and burned. It was a horrible site, it was back in the 80's. I took some pics and the Chicago cops grabbed my camera and ripped the film out. What do you say to a Chicago cop? Nothing.

I also saw Tony Lima (professional Golfer) crash and burn to death when I was 3 at Sportmans club with my parents in the 60's, it's a wonder I even fly.

 

[starchkr]

To kind of defend the MU-2 in this latest accident...I must quote what BigDukeSix said on the first page. The ILS at APA has been reported to give false signals at times, and those times all just happen to be when there is rain present around the transmitter. Both the latest tow accidents occurred when it was raining at the field, the metar's stated so. it is quite possibly not the a/c's fault in this incident, but the FAA's fault for having faulty equipment. just a thought...

 

[MDAutry]

Food for Thought:
The MU-2 was designed to be a very fast airframe regardless of engine configuration. Which I am not a big fan of the TPE-331, anyway... Imagine twin turboprop configuration on a Cessna 172 and you can begin to get the idea. With such a small wing area and usually very heavy load factor the aircraft has to be flown relatively fast on approach, take off, etc. Most of the guys who fly MU-2 are new to the professional pilot world many taking a right seat on the MU-2 as a first job post flight instruction. I know many flight instructors who are great guys but the only time they would be ahead of this airplane would be when they were getting on it. In the end, this plane requires a lot of mental attention and when guys are flying 135 with little pay and little sleep it is a wonder the this plane has not had more crashes. This speaks to the skill of the guys flying the MU-2 and the aircraft and the trainging available. The plane is a freak but a performer, people often scrutinize the odd design and this is another example of that i.e. 3 FAA investigations.

Great plane that gets the job done...

 

[Courkyle]

To all you MU-2 proponents out there.....well have you heard the latest....yet another one went down on Thursday evening in Arkansas......that makes Eleven I believe in a little over a year since my own son was killed in one.......Quite Alarming don't you think? But I think this one has the FAA squirming a little bit....and well they should....how can you ignore statistics like that......and yes.... reports will probably say again...."Pilot Error". Well to the contrary ....These pilots were so skilled that they managed to put these planes down only killing themselves but it is only a matter of time until one of them takes out an entire airport, hospital, office complex, school or day care center. It's a disaster waiting to happen...and it's time to get these planes out of the air!

 

[erj-145mech]

It is common knowlege that it takes a particular finesse to drive a Mitsi thru the skies. Demanding that all of the type be grounded is the same as saying that all red sports cars should be crushed because they have a higher rate of accidents than faux wood grained mini vans.

Common sense over emotions.

 

[Courkyle]

Do your homework.....if 25-30% (conservative estimate) of all Ford Taurus's crashed....you can bet your bottom dollar that they would be recalled. Emotions...yes.....as it wasn't until I lost my son in one of these "Widow Makers"....Kill U-2" and other affectionate? names that pilots themselves have given this plane that I started doing my homework. You see I am but one of many, many that are behind this movement....and if we succeed.....maybe your mother or wife or children if you have any will be spared the heartache that goes along with such a loss. Have a good day and enjoy flying...I wish you luck.

 

[TIGV]

Good you can pay my bills for me then seeing as I have over 2500 hours in the Mitz and somehow haven't managed to drive it into the ground.
I don't couldn't care less who you're trying to spare, stop trying to F&*# with my livelyhood, aviation's hard enough as it is and I have a good schedule and make decent coin flying a decent turbine twin ( MU-2 )
Hopefully your mission to ground the Mitz will fail miserably, I'm sorry for your loss, but I don't feel that I personally should have to be imacted by your personal crusade.

Cheers.

 

[erj-145mech]

I'm sorry for your loss, but you check the statistics. There have been less structural failures of the MU-2 than most other "safe" aircraft. The aircraft is affordable, so they are purchased to fly routes that are not economical for other aircraft. They are also staffed by less experienced pilots who will work for less to build turbine pilot in command time.

Look else where on this forum, and you will find a MU-2 accident this past week in Arkansas. The pilot had a mechanical problem, and passed over a major airport with fire and rescue equipment and ended up putting it down with the loss of his life soem time later.

Go to the NTSB website database and pull up the MU-2 accidents. How many are the result of "pilot error"? I rest my case. This has been discussed ad nauseum on this board many times.

Again, I am sorry for your loss, but also don't let your emotions contol your keyboard.

 

[ACT700]

HERE WE GO AGAIN!


Let the whining and biaching begin.

I'll say it again: It is no secret, the MU2's reputation. So, if you don't like it, if you are intimidated by it, or whatever the reason may be, then DON'T FLY IT.

We, who fly it, or better, I'll speak for myself: I accept the whole MU2 "thing", for lack of a better word. My family does. And if my time comes in one of them, so be it.
This is by far the most fun airplane I have flown. And yes, the most challenging.

But let's stop the bashing, until we have some effing facts.

I'm sure the Feds, being already under the gun on this one, will act-drastically. I don't have a problem with them instituting a "type-rating" or something.

Oh, and your logic for saying that these pilots managed to crash these birds without killing anyone on the ground, is, in my opinion, pure horse$hit.
I think that's the last thing that they were worried about.

And to that effect (sooner or later an MU2 will plow into a school, apartment, whatever...) is dumb reasoning. Because if you really stand behind that kind of reasoning, then you should be out there lobbying to have Teterboro closed and all Challengers grounded.

Get on with it already...

Let's everybody shut the puck up, and let the Feds do their work!

 

[Courkyle]

Type rating

With all do respect....What's a type rating going to do for you when you are in a situation you can't recover from. In my own son's case he was trained and retrained and retrained again every few months or so by Howell Enterprises....the best in the country for this airplane.....but it wasn't good enough.....Not a low-time pilot looking to gain hours...He was an experienced 737 pilot for USAirways and had the misfortune of being furloughed after 9/11 and was forced to go back to the MU-2 for livlihood. He met the misfortune that so many others before him did. If this airplane is so much under the gun by the Feds both now and in the past....including it's original certification process.....yes...I have done my homework......then why do you think that is.....There's nineteen pages of MU-2 crashes on the NTSB website....eleven in the past year or so alone....I would say that would give the FEDS something to worry about....especially given their moto safety first so to speak. Yes.... I do know the FEDs are starting to squirm on this one and maybe its about time. Good luck to all who still choose to fly it.

 

[TIGV]

In a PM to me Courkyle wished me the following glad tidings:

"You should have gotten into porn. Your character and your language are just right for the job......My son was not only a professional pilot but a professional human being respected by all.....which is more than I can say for you. Enjoy flying and I wish you the same fate as others that have gone before you......your day is coming!!!!!.Have a good day"

You sir are a class act.

I lost a friend on the MU-2 and yes it was pilot error and I, to at least some small degree, can sympathize with your loss, but the above is not acceptable in a public forum or a private message and I respectfully request a detraction of those portions of your PM that wish me personal harm, what with me being superstitious and all.

Cheers.

 

[erj-145mech]

Just because your son flew Boeings, that doesn't make him proficient in a high performance turbo prop. My brother in law is a flight deck officer for US Air, and I won't let him perform a pre-flight on my plane when I'm in it. I won't let him borrow it either. I don't expect him to allow me to preflight his aircraft either.

I can appreciate your support of your sons flying abilities. What was the date of you sons accident? Was it attributed to a failure of the aircraft or a ground facility? Can you give us a link to this so that we may form an intellegent opinion on the accident in question?

Because you show that you have no aviation experience, and you make a bold statement that this aircraft is totally unsafe before a host of professionals in this field is absurd. Why don't you come back when you can make an informed statement that isn't laced with emotions.

I also have refused to look at your private message, and if its like the other one, I will lodge a formal complaint with the moderators of the board and insist that you be banned along with the other bad apples.

 

[corpflunkie]

ERJ145 mech,

I have hesitated to post again regarding the MU2 seeing as how people didn't like what I had to say. However, I will not sit by and let ANYONE insinuate that CourKyle's son was not a proficient pilot. I had the honor/privelege of doing my IOE in the mitz with Tom, and can say without a doubt that he was one of the best damn pilots I EVER flew with. The final NTSB report left many unanswered questions about that day. Did something go wrong that the investigators missed? Quite possibly. Did Tom not do all the right things? We will never know. All we really know is that on that morning many people lost a friend. One lost a husband, two lost a son, and several, a brother. nuff said.