MU-2 Study

[ACT700]

HERE WE GO AGAIN!


Let the whining and biaching begin.

I'll say it again: It is no secret, the MU2's reputation. So, if you don't like it, if you are intimidated by it, or whatever the reason may be, then DON'T FLY IT.

We, who fly it, or better, I'll speak for myself: I accept the whole MU2 "thing", for lack of a better word. My family does. And if my time comes in one of them, so be it.
This is by far the most fun airplane I have flown. And yes, the most challenging.

But let's stop the bashing, until we have some effing facts.

I'm sure the Feds, being already under the gun on this one, will act-drastically. I don't have a problem with them instituting a "type-rating" or something.

Oh, and your logic for saying that these pilots managed to crash these birds without killing anyone on the ground, is, in my opinion, pure horse$hit.
I think that's the last thing that they were worried about.

And to that effect (sooner or later an MU2 will plow into a school, apartment, whatever...) is dumb reasoning. Because if you really stand behind that kind of reasoning, then you should be out there lobbying to have Teterboro closed and all Challengers grounded.

Get on with it already...

Let's everybody shut the puck up, and let the Feds do their work!

 

[Courkyle]

Type rating

With all do respect....What's a type rating going to do for you when you are in a situation you can't recover from. In my own son's case he was trained and retrained and retrained again every few months or so by Howell Enterprises....the best in the country for this airplane.....but it wasn't good enough.....Not a low-time pilot looking to gain hours...He was an experienced 737 pilot for USAirways and had the misfortune of being furloughed after 9/11 and was forced to go back to the MU-2 for livlihood. He met the misfortune that so many others before him did. If this airplane is so much under the gun by the Feds both now and in the past....including it's original certification process.....yes...I have done my homework......then why do you think that is.....There's nineteen pages of MU-2 crashes on the NTSB website....eleven in the past year or so alone....I would say that would give the FEDS something to worry about....especially given their moto safety first so to speak. Yes.... I do know the FEDs are starting to squirm on this one and maybe its about time. Good luck to all who still choose to fly it.

 

[TIGV]

In a PM to me Courkyle wished me the following glad tidings:

"You should have gotten into porn. Your character and your language are just right for the job......My son was not only a professional pilot but a professional human being respected by all.....which is more than I can say for you. Enjoy flying and I wish you the same fate as others that have gone before you......your day is coming!!!!!.Have a good day"

You sir are a class act.

I lost a friend on the MU-2 and yes it was pilot error and I, to at least some small degree, can sympathize with your loss, but the above is not acceptable in a public forum or a private message and I respectfully request a detraction of those portions of your PM that wish me personal harm, what with me being superstitious and all.

Cheers.

 

[erj-145mech]

Just because your son flew Boeings, that doesn't make him proficient in a high performance turbo prop. My brother in law is a flight deck officer for US Air, and I won't let him perform a pre-flight on my plane when I'm in it. I won't let him borrow it either. I don't expect him to allow me to preflight his aircraft either.

I can appreciate your support of your sons flying abilities. What was the date of you sons accident? Was it attributed to a failure of the aircraft or a ground facility? Can you give us a link to this so that we may form an intellegent opinion on the accident in question?

Because you show that you have no aviation experience, and you make a bold statement that this aircraft is totally unsafe before a host of professionals in this field is absurd. Why don't you come back when you can make an informed statement that isn't laced with emotions.

I also have refused to look at your private message, and if its like the other one, I will lodge a formal complaint with the moderators of the board and insist that you be banned along with the other bad apples.

 

[corpflunkie]

ERJ145 mech,

I have hesitated to post again regarding the MU2 seeing as how people didn't like what I had to say. However, I will not sit by and let ANYONE insinuate that CourKyle's son was not a proficient pilot. I had the honor/privelege of doing my IOE in the mitz with Tom, and can say without a doubt that he was one of the best damn pilots I EVER flew with. The final NTSB report left many unanswered questions about that day. Did something go wrong that the investigators missed? Quite possibly. Did Tom not do all the right things? We will never know. All we really know is that on that morning many people lost a friend. One lost a husband, two lost a son, and several, a brother. nuff said.

 

[erj-145mech]

Well, you sat by for 44 posts. I did not say that the pilot screwed up. I said that I did not have enough information to come to a reasonable conclusion.

The facts are that people screw up. Pilots screw up, mechanics screw up, ground personel screw up, controllers screw up. This is not a forgiving industry when this go awry. But the facts are that either the pilot, the airplane or the system screwed up this time. Sticking your head in the sand won't make it go away.

A close friend put a Baron in the trees 1/2 mile short at night in low IMC. Everybody around the airport said that he was the best pilot that they had flown with and that he couldn't screw up. I saw a NTSB transcript of his last flight with mode c readout, and he decended below the glideslope. Sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't.

I've screwed up, its just in my cases that either I caught and rectified the mistake, or the mistake was inconsiguential. Some cases they are not, and gravity is unforgiving and never sleeps.

Loosing a loved one is a tragedy, but put the blame where it belongs. I didn't know the pilot or you so I have an unbiased opinion on this. You obviously don't since you are involved.

Like I said above, this is my unbiased opinion, and until you can prove what I suspect is wrong, you will not change my opinions or suspicions. If you were not with him on this flight, you don't know what transpired. You have a biased opinion, I have an unbiased one.

 

[skyking1976]

Courkyle; Welcome to the webiste where a lot is said by people who know, or care, very little. TIGV says there was nothing found in the two previous SCRs. We both know he's wrong. But, he seems to be comfortable with a certain amount of ignorance in the matter. That's OK we know better. As a result of the SCR, he now enjoys flying a safer airplane when in icing conditions than before the SCR was conducted. He also seems to be pre-occupied with just making a living in the aircraft. He just doesn't want us to mess with that part of his life. After accruing 7000+ hours of flight time I would think that he would have found a better niche in the aviation world, but he seems stuck, and happy with the MU2. Wish him luck. I do.

 

[GravityHater]

I am mystified why anyone who wants such a change would come to a board such as this and start aggravating the very pilots who love and fly these machines. Maybe if the attitude was different, such as "hey I think there is a concern", or "do you guys have any info to support my theory?"

Instead we are seeing personal attacks when someone disagrees with you??

Go rattle someone else's cage with your crusade; I can't see you either adding anything useful to this forum ....or even being welcome here, sorry.
You have way too much emotional involvement in this topic to have the slightest chance of an unbiased view. I now appreciate the difficulty with which an accident investigator has to do his job.

 

[crosscut]

ERJ145 mech,

I have hesitated to post again regarding the MU2 seeing as how people didn't like what I had to say. However, I will not sit by and let ANYONE insinuate that CourKyle's son was not a proficient pilot. I had the honor/privelege of doing my IOE in the mitz with Tom, and can say without a doubt that he was one of the best dang pilots I EVER flew with. The final NTSB report left many unanswered questions about that day. Did something go wrong that the investigators missed? Quite possibly. Did Tom not do all the right things? We will never know. All we really know is that on that morning many people lost a friend. One lost a husband, two lost a son, and several, a brother. nuff said.

Up until I read Kyle’s PM, I, too, gave his son the benefit of the doubt. “However, now I will not sit by and let ANYONE insinuate that both of them shouldn’t have just gotten into porn.” Now I’m curious what that class-act privately directed at the ERJ mech.



BTW, I didn’t see the mech insinuating that Tom wasn’t a proficient pilot. He said the mere exposure to Boeings doesn’t make someone proficient with high performance t-props: completely different handling characteristics & different operating environments. What’s to disagree? Perhaps, you should direct your lack-of-hesitation posts at Tom’s dad for wishing ill will and death upon a fellow professional. I’m sorry for his son’s & his son’s family’s plight & misfortune but a mere disagreement should not warrant going around hating people who had better luck w/the airplane, which he considers evil.

 

[Vector4fun]

There's nineteen pages of MU-2 crashes on the NTSB website....eleven in the past year or so alone....I would say that would give the FEDS something to worry about....especially given their moto safety first so to speak.

Ummm,

I just did a search of the NTSB site, asked for all reports involving Mitsubishi aircraft since Jan 1, 2004.

There's only three listings for 2005, in one, the guy forgot to put the gear down....

There's 7 listings for 2004, of those 7, one hit a tug on a runway, and two suffered hard landings. (easy to do in the MU-2.)

Yes, there's several un-explained too.


Now, go back to the NTSB site, and do a search for accidents involving Cessna aircraft, just from Jan 1, 2005. Not even 9 full months' worth of data. I got 394 HITS, and I own what is statisticaly the safest GA aircraft ever built; a Cessna 172.

Do the same search for Piper Aircraft. 212 HITS


Let's review:

394 Cessna accidents since 1/1/2005,
212 Piper accidents.
Three MU-2 accidents listed. In one of those, the pilot forgot to put down the landing gear...

Those folks who died in Cessnas and Pipers had friends and relatives too.