Moving USAPA Forward

[Bad-Andy]

www.fergusonforpresident.com

www.koontzforvp.com

I encourage every East pilot on here to set aside your feelings about NIC or the West for 5 minutes and 30 seconds and watch the video on their site. Without prejudging them based on wild, baseless rumors and speculation (about AOL or other ridiculous claims), listen to their message. One theme comes through -- unity. These guys both understand that divided we will continue to rot at the bottom of the barrel. But unified, we can move forward to a real contract. Note that there is no malice towards us on the East (not even against the whack-jobs that tried to personally destroy them). Take a couple of minutes to read their statements and to watch the video before making up your minds. If you still don't support them, then what did you really lose? At least you will have made an honest, educated decision. In my opinion, these two are the best chance we have for ending this nightmare, moving forward, and getting a new contract...

It is clear to me who will support the pilot group's best interests in this election -- Eric and Jeff.

Andy

 

[On Your Six]

www.fergusonforpresident.com

www.koontzforvp.com

I encourage every East pilot on here to set aside your feelings about NIC or the West for 5 minutes and 30 seconds and watch the video on their site. Without prejudging them based on wild, baseless rumors and speculation (about AOL or other ridiculous claims), listen to their message. One theme comes through -- unity. These guys both understand that divided we will continue to rot at the bottom of the barrel. But unified, we can move forward to a real contract. Note that there is no malice towards us on the East (not even against the whack-jobs that tried to personally destroy them). Take a couple of minutes to read their statements and to watch the video before making up your minds. If you still don't support them, then what did you really lose? At least you will have made an honest, educated decision. In my opinion, these two are the best chance we have for ending this nightmare, moving forward, and getting a new contract...

It is clear to me who will support the pilot group's best interests in this election -- Eric and Jeff.

Andy

Follow the binding award, and better things will follow. If you don't want to follow BINDING ARBITRATION, then don't sign up for it.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[eaglesview]

Original....I think that's the very first time I have read that sentence here on FI.....thanks so much.

 

[TWA Dude]

Original....I think that's the very first time I have read that sentence here on FI.....thanks so much.

Our favorite USAPA apologist graces us once again. What do your Eastie buddies tell you they think will happen in Judge Silver's federal courtroom?

 

[St. Nic]

Our favorite USAPA apologist graces us once again. What do your Eastie buddies tell you they think will happen in Judge Silver's federal courtroom?

Not Ripe!

 

[Lampshade]

Not Ripe!

Sounds like you have no idea what's going on. You might want to read the court documents. :laugh:

 

[Bad-Andy]

For crying out loud, can't we stay on topic for one page without this becoming the same old bickering??? I just wanted to get the links out there for people to see more candidates' messages. Judge Silver will rule when she's ready. None of us knows for sure what she will rule (regardless of what we suspect). Just watch the d#$n videos, make up your minds, and then vote. If more people want to move forward these guys will win. If not, then we can return to our regularly scheduled poop-flinging fest in 2 weeks.....

Andy

 

[Lampshade]

They need to get a online debate between the Pres candidates with questions from the members. Separate the wheat from the chaff as they say.

 

[vetrider]

Bad Andy, thank you.

 

[ALGFLYR]

.....

One theme comes through -- unity. These guys both understand that divided we will continue to rot at the bottom of the barrel. But unified, we can move forward to a real contract.
...

In my opinion, these two are the best chance we have for ending this nightmare, moving forward, and getting a new contract...

"Unity" sounds great as a political battle cry... But I think to truly be successful, we as a pilot group need to find a way to achieve TRUE UNITY within our ranks to combat our mutual "enemy"... Management... I think any true leader that can unify this severly polarized pilot group will have to realize the "real" soultion is somewhere between the two extremes... But neither side seems willing to explore that territory... Why??

I will give you that there are some "Whack-jobs" on the East, but you must also realize and admit that there is an equal number of them on the West side... The vocal minority... they are present on both sides...

It's easy to talk about who is right and both can give convincing arguments as to why...

I don't engage in this banter on this site pitting East against West... I just look at what I can verify...

How can we bring these two groups together as a unified voice??

 

[Ocity]

How can we bring these two groups together as a unified voice??

Easy. Vote for Sane, rational leadership...AKA ERIC AND JEFF. If you want to follow the exact same path that got you locked into LOA93 for years longer than anybody ever expected, got you a permanent Injunction, that wasted millions and millions of dollars in pointless law suits then vote for Bill McKee and his Cronies.

There is only one choice to move fwd. Vote West.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Voting for West pilots is not a vote for the Nicolau. It is a vote for a change in leadership away from the miserable quagmire of the last 3 years. The pilots will still have their vote on a TA that will include the Nicolau, as they would whether or not a west pilot held the Presidency.

 

[outerlimits]

I that heard from several USAir pilots that there cannot be another merger until this senority is resolved.
Is this true? I find it hard to believe.

 

[Bad-Andy]

"Unity" sounds great as a political battle cry... But I think to truly be successful, we as a pilot group need to find a way to achieve TRUE UNITY within our ranks to combat our mutual "enemy"... Management... I think any true leader that can unify this severly polarized pilot group will have to realize the "real" soultion is somewhere between the two extremes... But neither side seems willing to explore that territory... Why??

I will give you that there are some "Whack-jobs" on the East, but you must also realize and admit that there is an equal number of them on the West side... The vocal minority... they are present on both sides...

It's easy to talk about who is right and both can give convincing arguments as to why...

I don't engage in this banter on this site pitting East against West... I just look at what I can verify...

How can we bring these two groups together as a unified voice??

AMEN. I couldn't agree with you more. Both sides have their fringe lunatics that just like to disrupt and destroy. No doubt about that.

As for how to bring the group together -- the first, and easiest way is to appoint both East and West pilots to all of the committees together, regardless of their positions on the seniority issue. Reconstitute a JNC with 3 East and 3 West members. When these guys work together (and keep their fights private) we will see unity begin to emerge.

The second step is a little harder, but it is to build trust between the groups. That comes through transparent union meetings (videoed, live feed, etc). It also involves getting more people from both sides to attend domicile meetings and BPR meetings. Like I said, that is a harder thing to accomplish (as normally the whack-jobs love to attend meetings and most rational people would rather get a root canal). But, it can be done.

It is not an easy process, nor will it be a quick one. But the wounds will be healed over time, that is if we want to move forward and get a better contract, that includes a lot more than just Section 22.

Andy

 

[Bad-Andy]

I that heard from several USAir pilots that there cannot be another merger until this senority is resolved.
Is this true? I find it hard to believe.

That is pure speculation. Could this disfunction disrupt a merger? Sure. But can it outright prevent one? No way. The men with the money will ultimately do what is best for themselves. Period. To think we control the airline's destiny (by controlling whether or not we can prevent a merger) is lunacy on our part. We might be able to influence it, but we can't control it...

Just my two cents...

 

[johnnyb]

I encourage every East pilot on here to set aside your feelings about NIC or the West for 5 minutes and 30 seconds and watch the video on their site.
Andy

You do realize one of those guys is about 100 numbers from the bottom out West.

Under the Nic award he jumps to 2300 and can hold 737 Captain out East.

 

[ultrarunner]

You do realize one of those guys is about 100 numbers from the bottom out West.

Under the Nic award he jumps to 2300 and can hold 737 Captain out East.

What are each of those persons pay rate?

The 100 from the West bottom FO vs. #2300 East 73 Cpt?

 

[becket]

You do realize one of those guys is about 100 numbers from the bottom out West.

Under the Nic award he jumps to 2300 and can hold 737 Captain out East.

False.

 

[ultrarunner]

False.

Ahh....so johnnyb just wants to stir the pot with false info...USapa would love him!

thanks becket.

 

[Turtle21]

"Unity" sounds great as a political battle cry... But I think to truly be successful, we as a pilot group need to find a way to achieve TRUE UNITY within our ranks to combat our mutual "enemy"....

How can we bring these two groups together as a unified voice??

Simple. Support the constitution and bylaws of the elected union.. or don't and shut the pie hole about unity. Just saying..

 

[becket]

Simple. Support the constitution and bylaws of the elected union.. or don't and shut the pie hole about unity. Just saying..

Your C&BLS were written solely by Eastholes who never even once invited a single, solitary West pilot to provide any input. Your C&BLs were found BY A JURY OF YOUR PEERS to be illegal. Sorry Easthole, your B.S. bylaws don't even come close to trumping the REAL Law. Haven't you noticed 4 years for constant failure and poverty? Have you ever wondered what's causing that?

 

[Turtle21]

Your C&BLS were written solely by Eastholes who never even once invited a single, solitary West pilot to provide any input. Your C&BLs were found BY A JURY OF YOUR PEERS to be illegal. Sorry Easthole, your B.S. bylaws don't even come close to trumping the REAL Law. Haven't you noticed 4 years for constant failure and poverty? Have you ever wondered what's causing that?

Ok. I'll mark you down as "Not only NO, but HELL NO!" on any unity.

P.S. You are cute when you are pissy. xoxo

 

[johnnyb]

Not stirring the pot.

737 Captain in DCA with 3 under him or PhL with 2 as of March alignment.

As usual - never admit to what is behind the Nic curtain ....

 

[MCDU]

The west can not handle the truth. The best solution for all is what happened with frontier and republic after the arbitraitor ruled.

M

 

[reepicheep]

A few interesting factors at work here...that bottom Captain position is actually 3/4 down the combined list. Lot's of east F/O's who can hold that position choose not to. The west pilot in question has moved up about 500 numbers on the combined list due to attrition. He was originally placed above approx. 1800 east pilots who were furloughed at the time of the merger; I believe all of these have been offered recall. So the bottom number overall has actually gone from about 6500 to 4700.

So it's not like this guy is leapfrogging a couple thousand pilots for this hypothetical Captain slot....he was placed on the list via relative position above the 1/3 of the east pilots who brought no job to the merger.

The east seem to be the ones who cannot handle the truth....that the Nic. is an unfortunate yet logically rendered result of the fact your airline imploded between 1990-2005.

 

[Turtle21]

A few interesting factors at work here...that bottom Captain position is actually 3/4 down the combined list. Lot's of east F/O's who can hold that position choose not to. The west pilot in question has moved up about 500 numbers on the combined list due to attrition. He was originally placed above approx. 1800 east pilots who were furloughed at the time of the merger; I believe all of these have been offered recall. So the bottom number overall has actually gone from about 6500 to 4700.

So it's not like this guy is leapfrogging a couple thousand pilots for this hypothetical Captain slot....he was placed on the list via relative position above the 1/3 of the east pilots who brought no job to the merger.

The east seem to be the ones who cannot handle the truth....that the Nic. is an unfortunate yet logically rendered result of the fact your airline imploded between 1990-2005.

Attempts to persuade folks to vote differently is a complete waste of time. People have already made up their mind. Just look at Becket.

 

[Superbird]

I bet there are plenty of pilots on the east who are ready for a pay raise. They are getting tired of the rhetoric from the usapa cheerleaders. Get ready for some changes.

 

[Carl S.]

The East AFO club 1985-1999 hires are holding the rest of the airline hostage for their terrible paths in life. The key to change is up to the other East pilots to move on from this path of LOA 93 for Life or till all AFO's upgrade and then move on. The ball is firmly in the East court. The vote count in a few weeks will tell, all 1100 West votes plus who wants to move on. Don't complain if you do not vote, you hold the keys to LOA 93.

 

[Turtle21]

I bet there are plenty of pilots on the east who are ready for a pay raise. They are getting tired of the rhetoric from the usapa cheerleaders. Get ready for some changes.

Pay raises are occurring via folks getting old enough to start collecting PBGC money, upgrades in seat and type, and by going from reserve to line holder. Change is happening, and retirements are only set to accelerate this fall.

 

[Lampshade]

Pay raises are occurring via folks getting old enough to start collecting PBGC money, upgrades in seat and type, and by going from reserve to line holder. Change is happening, and retirements are only set to accelerate this fall.

Sad really.:laugh: