More valuable military flight time?

[Flyingdude]

Right on Mr. Jiminez

Example: Flowback washout rate at Eagle compared to the washout rate by a new hire. All that "heavy metal" time and still washing out more than the so called "inexperienced regional new hire." Makes you wonder, huh? Facts are Facts.

 

[hoya saxa]

I guess youre new to the civilian world. Mil types have the highest wash out rate at most airlines. Fighter guys are the most problematic. Washouts are rare all together, but patterns develop. Not to paint anyone with a broad brush, Im sure you're great. But its true. You cannot argue with statistics.

Happy Hollidays.

A: I believe he was being sarcastic. Read the whole post.

B: I'd LOVE to see your "statistics" about washout rates... Since all airline training departments are so forthcoming (not) about their data, I'm sure your info is extremely accurate. Whatever helps you feel better...

C: Look to your left, now to your right. Which shoulder was the chip on?

 

[srjorion]

You cannot argue with statistics.

Makes you wonder, huh? Facts are Facts.

Could you two give us a source for these "facts" and "statistics"?

 

[PastFastMover]

Could you two give us a source for these "facts" and "statistics"?

Srjorion, this is an age old circular arguement that no one ever wins. I am better than you are. yada yada yada. What a waste of time. I would guess that no sources will be produced because there are none. Most airline pilots are such nerds. The ones that really make me laugh are the ones that hang their experience, ability, good looks, brains, or whatever you want to add on their date of hire or seniority number. Really makes me chuckle.

 

[hr2eternity]

Like the other dude said

I guess youre new to the civilian world. Mil types have the highest wash out rate at most airlines. Fighter guys are the most problematic. Washouts are rare all together, but patterns develop. Not to paint anyone with a broad brush, Im sure you're great. But its true. You cannot argue with statistics.

Happy Hollidays.

Hey Hose A, I would also like to know where you got your stats? Does anyone know what the percentage is at say American or Delta of Mil to Civ? A lot of my buds fly for these two and tell me the majority are Mil. So, maybe if there are any wash outs, they are mil. . . but only because the majority are mil to begin with? Don't talk to us about wash-outs Hose. We mil guys know all about wash outs because we get reminded of it every day for 365 days until we get our wings. Did you civilian "chippers" experience that in your part 141 training? I heard the dude that danced on the rudder in the Bus, till it snapped, of was Civ trained. And don't talk to us about your grueling job of flying single pilot IFR. Try pulling a 120 hour reserve period or bravo as we call it with no scheduled rest period, then flying a 24-26 hour day (in not so friendly territory) as a regular course of business, then we can talk. Until then, shut up and get me a cup of coffee. And happy holidays to you too.

 

[MooseTrax]

Hey Flyingdude.................

flyingdude:
try this in the mountains in the winter time in the middle of the night. Did I forget to mention you have no AP. Try this and then get back to me

you forgot while getting shot at.........oh yeah that's right you fly in the good old United States while your military pilots are in Afghanistan and Northern Iraq taking pot shots with RPGs and SAMs or maybe you haven't seen the news the last few years. Go tell the Army helo pilot flying an ancient chinook how "new" and "great" his avionics and engines are, go tell the C-130 pilot flying the 1962 E model in the mountains how great they got it, go tell the KC-135 pilot flying the 1959 model airframe how great they got it. Again, nobody is bashing you or what you do, so don't tread on the men and woman who put their lives on the line so we can live the best d@mn life in the best d@mn country on the face of this earth. And if you don't like it......move to Canada, it's a nice place too!

 

[SuperDavi8ator]

Example: Flowback washout rate at Eagle compared to the washout rate by a new hire. All that "heavy metal" time and still washing out more than the so called "inexperienced regional new hire." Makes you wonder, huh? Facts are Facts.

Facts are Facts as you say. Get your's straight. Let's compare Apples to Apples please. We are talking about an EMB145 Type ride v. an F/O check. A completely different checkride and grading standard. In my class, 4 busted types (2 flowbacks and 2 eagle upgrades). We had 2 new hires bust.



By the way, both flowbacks busted for the circle. A maneuver not even trained to F/Os and historically the most downgraded item.



Get your Facts straight before you start spoutin off.



I passed by the way.

Barely

 

[MooseTrax]

Flyingdude...............

Here is a thread you might be interested in reading thru. Then go find a fellow by the name of "quigs" as ask how to he came to his senses and got out of this rats nest.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=12970&page=1&pp=15

I don't know what it is with guys like you, but find me a post where a military guy just starts out bashing on some other group.......it just doesn't happen, but I have seen it now twice from a small freight flyer.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

You cant beat the experience I am getting in my Caravan 2 Supercargomaster. Its the best!!!

 

[FDJ2]

Example: Flowback washout rate at Eagle compared to the washout rate by a new hire. All that "heavy metal" time and still washing out more than the so called "inexperienced regional new hire." Makes you wonder, huh? Facts are Facts.

So the obvious conclusion from these facts is that inexperienced pilots are better than experienced pilots? Something tells me there is a little bit more to this story then highly qualified and experienced pilots washing out at a high rate in a flow back situation.

 

[TheTIC]

I think the perfect solution would be fly fighters young when you want to be spending time in Korea or Italy and in the middle east. Work hard at that and then go be a heavy pilot and go to Germany, Japan, and the middle east. Enjoy the slowing down of your mission and realize that your most offensive weapon is a flare.

Then figure out which is better for you, a $25000 a year bonus plus all the military tax breaks (and BS) and retirement at age 42, or getting a line # at an airline at a young age having no retirement and still deal with some BS.

(Oh, by the way I picked the airline stuff myself.) my training class had three military, one fighter, one heavy, one heavy/fighter crossflow.

I think PIC is what really counts.

 

[Spooky 1]

I was around an airline dominated by military pilots although I myself was not one of them. I can tell that there is no better place to get trained than the in the military services of the U.S. The training that these folks receive exceeds anything you will ever see in the civilian sector. i.e., FSI or Simuflite. As for busts, I do not believe that anyone ever tracked the backgrounds of those who busted initial training, a sim check or line check. It just was not done and since I oversaw the flight standards on both the MD11 and B777 I think I know of which I speak. Your assertion that it was or is tracked is pure bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. As far as how pilots were treated, whether civialian or military? Didn't make a tinkers **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** after you were hired. You were now a pilot for brand x, and that was all that mattered. There were no standards for civilians and another for military. Just did not happen. I guess if you are real insecure about your heritage, then you probably could make up or dream up any number of reasons why the military guys/gals were somehow inferior to your own origins or were prima- donas.

Personnaly I really enjoyed the military crowd. Some great aviation stories and life experiences. And yes, the fighter pilots were the best or at least most interesting. Then all you had to do was figure out which was the best out of the Navy, Marines and Air Force. I'll leave that to another time. I salute all the guys and gals who have come through the military flight training programs as they have IMHO already been well tested in there initial training experiences.

I am around several people today in my flying job that have a real problem with military pilots. I can only guess that it's their own insecurity that makes them that way. To bad as I guess some folks never grow up.

 

[Spooky 1]

I was around an airline dominated by military pilots although I myself was not one of them. I can tell that there is no better place to get trained than the in the military services of the U.S. The training that these folks receive exceeds anything you will ever see in the civilian sector. i.e., FSI or Simuflite. As for busts, I do not believe that anyone ever tracked the backgrounds of those who busted initial training, a sim check or line check. It just was not done and since I oversaw the flight standards on both the MD11 and B777 I think I know of which I speak. Your assertion that it was or is tracked is pure bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. As far as how pilots were treated, whether civialian or military? Didn't make a tinkers **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** after you were hired. You were now a pilot for brand x, and that was all that mattered. There were no standards for civilians and another for military. Just did not happen. I guess if you are real insecure about your heritage, then you probably could make up or dream up any number of reasons why the military guys/gals were somehow inferior to your own origins or were prima- donas.

Personnaly I really enjoyed the military crowd. Some great aviation stories and life experiences. And yes, the fighter pilots were the best or at least most interesting. Then all you had to do was figure out which was the best out of the Navy, Marines and Air Force. I'll leave that to another time. I salute all the guys and gals who have come through the military flight training programs as they have IMHO already been well tested in there initial training experiences.

I am around several people today in my flying job that have a real problem with military pilots. I can only guess that it's their own insecurity that makes them that way. To bad as I guess some folks never grow up.

 

[f9driver]

Flying Dude

Flying Dude, I can understand that you have scared yourself. Part 135 in some parts of the country can be hairy at times. IMO one of the reasons is that typically these jobs go to timebuilders who are relatively inexperienced....1-2 years and 1000-2000 hours. They then leave for better jobs. If we had 10-20 year career pilots in these jobs the confidence level would be much higher and you wouldn't think you had to be Charles Lindbergh to be safe. The familiarity would lessen the strain that isput on young pilots.
Contrarily, there are some risks in the military that cannot be overcome with experience. I saw many fatal catapult accidents in the Navy and when when it happens it doesn't matter how much experience or rank you have..... the bullets and Sams hit C.O's and CAG's just as regular too. Most military guys know and many have done what you do. I doubt you know much what military pilots go through.

 

[Keydet]

Yeah, I'd like to see all these military guys fly single pilot in something that does not quickly climb to 370 (or 170 for that matter). By the way, try this in the mountains in the winter time in the middle of the night. Did I forget to mention you have no AP. Try this and then get back to me about how ANY military time is the best, that is a joke. Oh wait, you guys have never had to fly in such adverse conditions, yet you are the best. Odd don't you think?

I have flown through crappier weather in places you will only read or hear about on the news or National Geographic. Believe me, take a P-3 bagged out to 135,000 lbs and you will barely make 170, let alone a dreamy 370. As for adverse conditions--I don't know how many times I had to take a 30 yr old airplane with antiquated systems through adverse weather so we could help our guys on the ground put steel in the foreheads of bad guys. Oh, and then after doing that, fly a few more hours back to our base only to land in 30 kt crosswind conditions from the typhoon that just passed through. Take the chip on your shoulder and place it deep and forcefully into your backside.

 

[canyonblue]

The best pilot is the one who knows it but doesn't say it. They are the ones to first complement a fellow pilot when flying with them all the while feeling a little embarrassed by the complements shot their way.

Who's the best pilot?.....................

 

[Rhoid]

Example: Flowback washout rate at Eagle compared to the washout rate by a new hire. All that "heavy metal" time and still washing out more than the so called "inexperienced regional new hire." Makes you wonder, huh? Facts are Facts.

The fact is that they have a mainline seniority number and YOU DON'T.

 

[hr2eternity]

My **** is bigger

The fact is that they have a mainline seniority number and YOU DON'T.

Like someone said earlier, I've never heard a mil. dude bust on a civilian guy, only the other way around or when the chips start showing. Nobody likes a chipper. So settle down Francis. And since you bozos keep throttling the issue: there's two types of pilots, those that were trained by the military, and those that wish they were. Have a nice day.

 

[Rhoid]

Like someone said earlier, I've never heard a mil. dude bust on a civilian guy, only the other way around or when the chips start showing. Nobody likes a chipper. So settle down Francis. And since you bozos keep throttling the issue: there's two types of pilots, those that were trained by the military, and those that wish they were. Have a nice day.

Actually pal, i'm on your side. I can't stand the commuter boys attitudes to the military pilots. Their jealousy is so obvious.

 

[jetpilot243]

Flyingdude quote:

"Oh wait, you guys have never had to fly in such adverse conditions, yet you are the best. Odd don't you think?"

You're being ridiculous! Try landing on an aircraft carrier at night at mins with a pitching deck after a 5 hour mission! Good luck.