More signs the ATR is going away.

[CFI2766]

How do you loose and ATR?

-psssst-

if you are gonna make fun of someone's diction, 'twould be wise to use proper English....just sayin....

 

[CFI2766]

Man, I don't wanna go learn the jet...sigh.

Oh well, when will we officially know about FOs being denied class on the jet who have it awarded? Sounds like a good time to get bypass pay, if it's still in the new contract....



Anyone got the number of that truck driving school? TruckMasters was it?

 

[CFI2766]

Then again, I could imagine a very pleasant world where the only ATR route is a shuttle between ATL and HXD, and possibly MYR.

ATR party at the Tiki hut every Friday!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Anyway, I still think Delta will RFP any new flying to replace ATR's, and ASA has zero chance of winning that......which I find also interesting, considering all of the 'great things' that were heading our way when the new contract was signed. And, we didn't get squat! In fact, the leadership has said many times lately that we have nothing on the horizon.

I agree with this statement. We won't get it because our ATR rate is very high compared to the industry, ans introducing any other t-prop would force a renegotiation on the rate. ALPA doesn't negotiate rates until the airplane is on property, so ASA couldn't make a competitive bid in an RFP.

 

[John Pennekamp]

First off, Delta does get some of those penalties. All baggage penalties go to Delta now, since they are the sole contractor for it. CVG is technically counted as a hub for us, the 850 flights are not all tied to ATL. We actually are meeting most of the goals for performance. Most of it is tied to completion factor, the rest is on-time. ASA's numbers are climbing from what they were this past summer.

What did you really expectr though, honestly? During negotiations, ASA had much worse on-time numbers. Who's going to invest in that? Simply having a contract isn't going to invite new growth. The best job security is to be competitive. If ASA can achieve higher performance numbers (on time, completion, D-0, baggage, etc) than I think companies are going to want to go after ASA. Otherwise, if you were an airline exec, why would you pick ASA?

Ummm maybe because we're f***ing cheap?!!! In this industry $$$ talks and BS walks. They don't care as much about performance as they do about money. It's just lip service.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

I agree with this statement. We won't get it because our ATR rate is very high compared to the industry, ans introducing any other t-prop would force a renegotiation on the rate. ALPA doesn't negotiate rates until the airplane is on property, so ASA couldn't make a competitive bid in an RFP.

Then why is Pinnacle flying CRJ-900s with rates that are still being negotiated?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Then why is Pinnacle flying CRJ-900s with rates that are still being negotiated?

I should have said the ASA MEC, not just "ALPA".

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Ummm maybe because we're f***ing cheap?!!! In this industry $$$ talks and BS walks. They don't care as much about performance as they do about money. It's just lip service.

Respectfully, I disagree. Yes, our total costs are cheaper than other carriers, but if Mesa is known for being cheap, and has even worse on time performance, then why are carriers like United looking to get rid of them. On time performance and operating costs are not mutually exclusive.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Respectfully, I disagree. Yes, our total costs are cheaper than other carriers, but if Mesa is known for being cheap, and has even worse on time performance, then why are carriers like United looking to get rid of them. On time performance and operating costs are not mutually exclusive.

Because they're unstable. They will most likely be gone within a year, and everyone knows it. ASA will be around for a long time.

 

[gator_hater]

"More signs the ATR is going away."

Was there not a memo about this a couple months ago that spelled out there departure or did I just dream that up?

 

[John Pennekamp]

"More signs the ATR is going away."

Was there not a memo about this a couple months ago that spelled out there departure or did I just dream that up?

We've been hearing "they will be gone this year" for two years now...

 

[centralpilot]

Oh well, when will we officially know about FOs being denied class on the jet who have it awarded? Sounds like a good time to get bypass pay, if it's still in the new contract....

I'm fairly certain that bypass pay is still in the new contract for those who are bypassed for the CR7. However, with so many ATR FOs already awarded jet positions, I'm not sure who would be left that has more than a year with the company to make it matter. Also, the vast majority of ATR FOs with jet awards have been receiving bypass pay for some time, so it won't affect pay if the company decides to cancel their classes.

One thing I'm curious about is how the company goes about seat locking people when they start retiring ATRs from the fleet. I don't recall seeing any language on this in the contract. Is that usually negotiated with the union in a LOA?

 

[kf4amu]

ALPA doesn't negotiate rates until the airplane is on property,

So why did PDT set LTP rates for the Q400/ATR, when neither is on the property or even ordered?

 

[John Pennekamp]

So why did PDT set LTP rates for the Q400/ATR, when neither is on the property or even ordered?

If you read carefully, you'd see I clarified my statement. by "ALPA" I was referring to the ASA MEC, who has a strict policy of not bidding on "phantom aircraft".

 

[John Pennekamp]

One thing I'm curious about is how the company goes about seat locking people when they start retiring ATRs from the fleet. I don't recall seeing any language on this in the contract. Is that usually negotiated with the union in a LOA?

The way they did it on the Brasilia was not to officially seat lock anyone, but rather, just not let anyone off (bypass). That covered all the FOs since FOs can be legally bypassed indefinitely, as long as they're paid the higher rate. Since Captains can't be bypassed, they awarded them positions, but never sent them to training. This eventually led to a grievance because they were sending people not on the Brasilia (jet FOs upgrading for example) to class before the Brasilia Captains holding an award. They are required to send everyone from a previous award before they send anyone from a later award.

ASA eventually settled, but it bought them the 3-6 months they needed to retire the airplane and still have pilots. "Fly now, grieve later" is a great thing if you're in management. Expect to see it happen again.